Fluval Stratum (?????)

[Alexopolus]

So I have been in the hobby for a while, and 3 years keeping CRS. My first CRS tank was a 5G with ADA aquasoil and amazonia. Everything whent just fine... I started a 30G 2 years ago, but instead of ADA I used Ecocomplete, shrimps were ok, I had berried females but my survival rate wasn't as good as with the ADA soil
(Eco-complete doesn't buffer ph), but at least I had some baby shrimps doing well.
March 2011, I got a Fluval shrimp tank with the soil. Loved how it looked and well, I tested the water after a week of cycling... Parameters were perfect, Ph buffered, everything so smooth... And well, I went crazy and changed the soil of my 30G for the Fluval Stratum. Looks nice, shrimps seems happy, they look very healthy!
I started to see berried females (more often than before I changed the soil), but no babies. I have had every month 2 berried females in the Fluval tank and I only have 4 young shrimps... And in my 30 G I noticed a lot of berried females, but same issue, a few young shrimps... (I will say that my survival rate is less than 3 babies per berried female).
Is there any explanation for that?

I did read about the issues with FSS 4 months ago, and ignored it... And now I'm really think that this soil is just crap!!!

[retardo]

There are others that have noted this same observation. Check out this thread. I have a friend that has used FSS and come up with the same conclusion. He has since switched back to AS.

[Alexopolus]

I did read that thread months ago!!! and I'm really upset about that ... So... conclusion shrimplets wont survive on FSS !!??? Can anyone explain why?

[ChiefWalksInSlips]

With all do respect, I beg to differ. I have had my 16gal shrimp tank with FSS for only 2 months now. I purchased a berried female from my local fish store and kept her inside a breeding box inside my community tank. after a short cycling period I moved her and one other female into the shrimp tank. Weeks later I now have over 14 shrimplets happily roaming and growing! It has now been 2 weeks since I saw the first srimplet. Everybodies experiences are going to be different but just because it hasnt worked for some, doesnt mean it doesnt work at all!

I attatched a photo of the female and some shrimplets! I have read all the mixed reviews about FSS and even thought about dismantling my entire tank before she dropped her eggs. There are things about FSS I do not exactly care for, but to say "It will not support shrimplets" is a myth in my book.

Again, I say this not in argument but only to share my experience!

[Alexopolus]

With all do respect, I beg to differ. I have had my 16gal shrimp tank with FSS for only 2 months now. I purchased a berried female from my local fish store and kept her inside a breeding box inside my community tank. after a short cycling period I moved her and one other female into the shrimp tank. Weeks later I now have over 14 shrimplets happily roaming and growing! It has now been 2 weeks since I saw the first srimplet. Everybodies experiences are going to be different but just because it hasnt worked for some, doesnt mean it doesnt work at all!

I attatched a photo of the female and some shrimplets! I have read all the mixed reviews about FSS and even thought about dismantling my entire tank before she dropped her eggs. There are things about FSS I do not exactly care for, but to say "It will not support shrimplets" is a myth in my book.

Again, I say this not in argument but only to share my experience!

I said the same when I readed that thread months ago ( I tought people were overreacting )... after 7 months I don't have much youngsters anymore... I can send you pics of 6 berried females (berried 6 weeks ago too) but not many shrimp lets.
I have added mosur a gravidas and bt9, with no change.


Before I go back toADA, I want to know if someone has figure out what is wrong with this soil! Is it a bad batch? Contaminated? Heavy metals?

[HYUN007]

I said the same when I readed that thread months ago ( I tought people were overreacting )... after 7 months I don't have much youngsters anymore... I can send you pics of 6 berried females (berried 6 weeks ago too) but not many shrimp lets.
I have added mosur a gravidas and bt9, with no change.


Before I go back toADA, I want to know if someone has figure out what is wrong with this soil! Is it a bad batch? Contaminated? Heavy metals?

Is the tank heavily planted with moss?
Sometime pictures of tank and water parameter can tell a story better.

[Alexopolus]

2 tanks heavy planted (ferns, moss, anubias and moss balls) water parameters PH 6.4, temperature 70F, Nitrite 0, nitrate is too low to read, I use RO water and add mosura minerals, KH is very low.

[FishFan85]

I use this, have no problem with it.
My shrimplets survive..I think there is more to hand than the soil.
When shrimplets die there are more than a few explanations that can be looked at.

For example:
- There can be problems with the water parameters.
- Insufficient food sources
- Other tank inhabitants.



I keep on reading about people who are very happy with it/OR completely dislike it.
I also have the tendency to think that all the drama/hype around this product makes it easier for people to point in it's direction.

I have not read any scientific proof that it is in any way harmfull.
As with everything in our aquariums, the balance between organic and chemical defines everything from survival to breeding succes.
I think we should keep an open mind, if YOU think it doesn't work for you, then change it.
If you are happy with it. WHY change it.

I hope you will try to keep an open mind. And not let every negative comment get to you.
There are also many people for whom it does work.

Guess again. There is more to that than pointing a finger.
Untill I have seen/given scientific proof that this soil is harmfull in anyway.

But that is just my little opinion.

Take care and goodluck with your shrimps.


Joey

[Lexinverts]

I use this, have no problem with it.
My shrimplets survive..I think there is more to hand than the soil.
When shrimplets die there are more than a few explanations that can be looked at.

For example:
- There can be problems with the water parameters.
- Insufficient food sources
- Other tank inhabitants.



I keep on reading about people who are very happy with it/OR completely dislike it.
I also have the tendency to think that all the drama/hype around this product makes it easier for people to point in it's direction.

I have not read any scientific proof that it is in any way harmfull.
As with everything in our aquariums, the balance between organic and chemical defines everything from survival to breeding succes.
I think we should keep an open mind, if YOU think it doesn't work for you, then change it.
If you are happy with it. WHY change it.

I hope you will try to keep an open mind. And not let every negative comment get to you.
There are also many people for whom it does work.

Guess again. There is more to that than pointing a finger.
Untill I have seen/given scientific proof that this soil is harmfull in anyway.

But that is just my little opinion.

Take care and goodluck with your shrimps.


Joey

I have not seen "scientific proof" for ANYTHING in the entire shrimp hobby. We are mostly hobbyists, and we share our experiences here in this forum.

If you want scientific proof you need a controlled experiment with replication and a statistical test. This will not happen, unless someone here has a lot of time on their hands and is willing to commit lots of livestock to the effort. (Hopefully, Fluval is doing this for us already.)

Here is my experience: Only 1-3 CRS survive from each brood on Fluval shrimp stratum. From other posts here, you will see that many other experienced shrimp keepers have had similar experiences with this substrate. Therefore, I switched to Akadama to see if I can do better. So far I have had much better success on Akadama.
My sample size = 1, thus this is not scientific proof. However, it would be silly for other shrimpkeepers who are also having problems with FSS to disregard my experience because it is not scientific proof. It would also be silly for shrimpkeepers who are currently having success with their batch of FSS to switch it out of the tank that is breeding for them. They should, however, consider the experiences of others here before they commit any new tanks to Fluval Shrimp Stratum. At this point, it is most likely safer to start up a new tank with Aquasoil or Akadama.

[FishFan85]

I have not seen "scientific proof" for ANYTHING in the entire shrimp hobby. We are mostly hobbyists, and we share are experiences here in this forum.

If you want scientific proof you need a controlled experiment with replication and a statistical test. This will not happen, unless someone here has a lot of time on their hands and is willing to commit lots of livestock to the effort. (Hopefully, Fluval is doing this for us already.)

Here is my experience: Only 1-3 CRS survive from each brood on Fluval shrimp stratum. From other posts here, you will see that many other experienced shrimp keepers have had similar experiences with this substrate. Therefore, I switched to Akadama to see if I can do better. So far I have had much better success on Akadama.
My sample size = 1, thus this is not scientific proof. However, it would be silly for other shrimpkeepers who are also having problems with FSS to disregard my experience because it is not scientific proof. It would also be silly for shrimpkeepers who are currently having success with their batch of FSS to switch it out of the tank that is breeding for them. They should, however, consider the experiences of others here before they commit any new tanks to Fluval Shrimp Stratum. At this point, it is most likely safer to start up a new tank with Aquasoil or Akadama.

I think you misinterpreted my comment.

First of all, you mention you haven't seen anything scientific in the hobby.
I agree that perhaps we are all hobbyists here, and I do understand the nature of this forum crystal clear, nevertheless there has been study's, scientific research and publications on these animals.

I have read many articles that regard the various conditions of shrimp in the wild and how water parameters and other biological factors influence the developement of shrimp and shrimplets.
These factors are studied and published , for example that is how we know which water parameters they prefer.
And that is what I mean by the science of things.

Agreeing with you on the point that it is FLUVAL's job to test, and do quality control on their products, (without testing it on animals I hope)

Then it won't be possible to find scientific proof of any harmfull things would there?
Ergo, if it isn't proven I won't believe that it's harmfull, and I conclude that there are other factors creating the problems seperate from the soil.

That is my logic, and you may or may not agree, I respect that.
Nevertheless it is mine to share.


In your last sentence you conclude that it's safer to start up a new tank with Aquasoil or Akadema.
I partially disagree. Because you can have problems with either soil when your other parameters are not in check. And I have read negative comments on other soils as well.

I am curious to know on what basis do you conclude this?
Do you base this on the many negative comments you read here on this forum?
Because there are many fora online, and I can give you as much positive comments on it as negative.
I am active on many fora under many names and I did extensive reading before I commited to this soil.

I do certainly agree with you that it is wise to keep in mind other experiences of your fellow shrimpkeepers.
That doesn't mean you can't make up your own mind though, based on both negative AND positive comments.

As concluded in the previous thread that was based on this topic, there are many different opinions on this substrate.
Let's keep it at that.

Thank you Lexinverts for your well formulated statement. I can understand and respect where you are coming from.

I hope you do the same for me.

Take care,

Joey