Newbie confused about the substrate debate

[AG36]

Hi folks !
I am doing my reading on the various shrimp substrates available on the market and have begun to realize that all the top substrates dissolve (or what I interpret as render themselves useless!) over a short period of time (12-18 months?) http://www.shrimpkeeping.com/substrate.html
If I am interpreting this right....once this expensive substrate literally dissolves, you remove it and go buy more to put in the tank?

So I have 2 questions:

1.) Doesn't the process of removing the dissolved substrate (having to catch all the shrimp and temporarily house them) while you de-construct your tank and throw away a large bed of medium that housed a large colony of valuable bacteria prove to be extremely disruptive and threatening to the balance of the aquarium every 18 or so months?

2.) Is their a better way to solve this problem or approach it from a different angle?

[AG36]

Follow up thoughts:
Because in the end I hear all of these stories of failure from using inert/inactive or inferior substrates (like FSS) and then, all these "my shrimp are breeding like crazy now" success stories of Akadama and ADA and it makes me think I am going to have to buy the good stuff and bite the bullet and replace it every so often. I will, if it means success, it just seems the process of re-starting every year or so seems counter-productive after the initial success is met.

[Summit MicroFarm]

To be honest you mention two things that I want to address.
1) I also read that the active substrates may only last a year. I chose to use ADA Amazonia and was worried about it going inactive within a year to 1.5 years. I still have my first tank set up that was nearly 3 years ago and probably needs to be redone at this point but it is still buffering. A LOT has to do with what the paramaters of the water you are using to fill and change with. Since I use RO/DI water and add some minerals the substrate does not "have to work so hard" to adjust/buffer the tank as it would if you were using some very alakaline water with high minerals say out of your tap or well. Then the substrate would not last near as long.

2) I cannot speak about Akadama yet as I have only had one tank set up since Oct 21, 2011 (Taiwan bees and mischlings growing and doing well since...see My new Thai bee Akadama tank) but I can speak about ADA Amazonia. I decided to use this substarte after failing with CRS an initial first try with an inert fine black gravel. I have used this substrate since and have it in 6 of my 12 tanks and absolutely love it! Just like anyone, I had to get it "dialed in" first, but once I did it has prooven to be fool proof as long as you do not get lazy on water changes etc.

[AG36]

Just like anyone, I had to get it "dialed in" first,

What does this mean? I'll take a guess and say "cycled" like everyone else?

but once I did it has prooven to be fool proof as long as you do not get lazy on water changes etc.

By this you mean keeping up with water changes eases the "buffering burden" on the substrate and prevents it from being exhausted too soon?

As always your response is greatly appreciated and thank you for consistently being "Johnny on the Spot" with my queries. The pieces are starting to come together on this substrate issue.

[Summit MicroFarm]

Sorry...the term "dialed in" means to have something set up perfect with all the kinks already worked out...DIALED IN...

What I means is, once I got it "dialed in" or set up, cycled, and an established water change schedule...the substrate system and my shrimp breeding became routine and not in question. That is until you do something to upset the balance and go away on vacation or skip a few water changes or allow plants to grow so clustered in your tank that they interfere with water circulation...
THEN WATER CHEMISTRY SPIKE AND COLONY CRASH! ouch!

[ChiefWalksInSlips]

This is a subject I have been avoiding. I purchased my substrate from my LFS without researching and reading enough reviews. Unfortunatly i purchased FSS and am afraid I am going to regret it in the long run. This is probably the only time I will ever say that in my case having a "berried" female is not a good thing since I would really like to switch my substrate.

Does anybody have any recommendations, or should i just wait and see what happens?


P.s. Sorry AG36, I'm not trying to hijack your thread. Just figured i am in the same boat so might as well chime in.

[GeToChKn]

As said above, length of the soil depends on what you expect it to do. If you have ph 8.6 water and a gh of 15 and do 30% water changes every week, then the soil isn't going to last long trying to buffer down to ph 6, gh of 4. If you use RO water and add minerals back to get your gh at 4, then it only has to really buffer the ph down to 6, and will probably last years. Frequency/amount of water changes on crystal and other bee shrimp is for debate on how much/how long to wait. I find they like more stable water and I don't change much, maybe 10% every week fews or so and I've been getting lots of babies lately.

As for how to do it, after a few times, it doesn't take long. I just redid my 20gal long and had it done in no time. After a while you become an expect at holding 2 turkey basters and sucking up babies. Yes, your substrate will loose some benefical bacteria, but your filter should be loaded as well as plants, mosses, driftwood, rocks, etc and it will seed fairly quick. If you're that worried, get your new soil beforehand and start to cycle it in a bucket with a sponge filter and some snails or goldfish or something to get it going.

If you use something like ADA soil, you're going to want to do that anyways as Amazonia can leech ammonia at the start for 3-8 weeks anyways, so in the time it is cycling and leeching its ammonia in a pail/tote/etc, it will be building its bacteria as well.

[FishFan85]

Thinking you mean this by FSS?
Fluval Shrimp Soil?
I do not consider that to be inferior, there are many enhanced substrates and have similar properties like FSS, just named differently and sold under various names.
Sometimes I learned, people can go only for something, because of the name, or packaging.

And of course there are substrates whom are completely different , I don't believe there is a "best" substrate.

It all depends on which specifications your shrimp need and the qualities you prefer of your substrate,

I use this, and don't regret it one bit. My shrimp are doing great, it does lower PH to 6,8, and my plants are doing fine.
If it is needed to change it after a year, I will, gives me a good opportunity to do a big cleanup too.
Does it mean I would go for something different, if/when that time comes? No. Because it works for me.
And if I learned one thing from everything I went through in my hobby's, it's if it works, why change it.

I think all "special"substrates with added nutrients, or other chemically enhancing capabillity's need replacement after a while.
I did a complete substrate change, kept all the water in storage, still being cycled with my filter.
Replaced the substrate put the water back in with a 20 % water change , added some bacteria and have had no problem with water parameters.
I did check it very often though just to make sure.

Don't go blind on every special soil that you come across, if you find one with the right properties for your shrimp, and it's something you can work with and find esthetically pleasing, make your choice.

Even with gravel it's an okay thing to rinse it after a year or so of everything that has been building up in it, waste or otherwise.

Of course there are good bacteria in your substrate, nevertheless, don't forget a big portion of your nitrate cycle also takes place in your filter.
If you have a good cycled tank/filter, your bacteria will recover with a little help. I didn't ran in to any dramatic changes, even though I only have a 20 liters, 5 Gallon tank.

It comes down to what shrimp you would like, what you like personally, and what gives you the best results.

Find out what works for you

Take care,

Joey

[AG36]

P.s. Sorry AG36, I'm not trying to hijack your thread. Just figured i am in the same boat so might as well chime in.

Are you kidding me Chief? Look at all the good dialogue you and I have facilitated. This all makes the pot richer. Good stuff

[AG36]

Great stuff by the way Joey, this helps ease some of my concerns about going through the overhaul process of extracting the "exhausted substrate" of whatever brand that I may choose.
I suppose after reading everything the process would go like this:

Catch all livestock and remove live plants;
Keep them in bucket/etc. with some siphoned tank water
Siphon out remaining tank water
Proceed to remove/shovel out exhausted or dissolved substrate
Insert new substrate
Fill tank back with previously removed water plus 20-25-30%? new water
Let heater re-stabilize tank temp.
Proceed to add plants and livestock back in their old (but sort of new) home.

Did I miss anything?