*LAKE MATANO SALT MIX AT LAST*

[willw]

Hi all,

a very big announcement today; this is the recipe to replicate Lake Matano water to keep Cardinal Shrimp. Please discuss all your thoughts about it! I would really like to know how you think the different chemicals and compounds relate to the shrimps' biology.

The credit for this goes to Sean Crowe, the man who wrote a paper all about the biogeochemistry of Lake Matano.

So, here we go:

LAKE MATANO SURFACE WATERS RECIPE (MAJOR SALT SOLUTION)

g salt per 1 liter RO / Distilled Water

MgO*1 0.0264g
MgSO4•7H2O 0.0037g
CaCO3 0.0281g
CaCl2•2H2O 0.0015g
Na2SO4 0.0025g
KCl 0.0003g

*May be easier to use equimolar mass of MgCO3

• Adjust to desired pH with CO2 gas- surface water pH is 8.1-8.2, chemocline is ~7.5, deepwater is ~6.9 to 7.0. MgO will remain largely insoluble until the pH is adjusted. Can take 48 for 72 hrs to adjust the pH due to the kinetics of MgO dissolution.
  
• 1Depending on the chemical supplier some (usually small) fraction of the MgO will not dissolve
  
• Can be prepared in a 10 fold concentrated stock
  
• Filter sterilize to avoid precipitation during autoclaving
  
• Salts can be varied to more accurately represent deeper water chemistry.
  
• Sulfate concentration is nearly twice that of the surface water.

Please contribute by providing as much as you know or suspect for the sake of research!

[Lexinverts]

Hi all,

a very big announcement today; this is the recipe to replicate Lake Matano water to keep Cardinal Shrimp. Please discuss all your thoughts about it! I would really like to know how you think the different chemicals and compounds relate to the shrimps' biology.

The credit for this goes to Sean Crowe, the man who wrote a paper all about the biogeochemistry of Lake Matano.

So, here we go:

LAKE MATANO SURFACE WATERS RECIPE (MAJOR SALT SOLUTION)

g salt per 1 liter RO / Distilled Water

MgO*1 0.0264g
MgSO4•7H2O 0.0037g
CaCO3 0.0281g
CaCl2•2H2O 0.0015g
Na2SO4 0.0025g
KCl 0.0003g

*May be easier to use equimolar mass of MgCO3

• Adjust to desired pH with CO2 gas- surface water pH is 8.1-8.2, chemocline is ~7.5, deepwater is ~6.9 to 7.0. MgO will remain largely insoluble until the pH is adjusted. Can take 48 for 72 hrs to adjust the pH due to the kinetics of MgO dissolution.
  
• 1Depending on the chemical supplier some (usually small) fraction of the MgO will not dissolve
  
• Can be prepared in a 10 fold concentrated stock
  
• Filter sterilize to avoid precipitation during autoclaving
  
• Salts can be varied to more accurately represent deeper water chemistry.
  
• Sulfate concentration is nearly twice that of the surface water.

Please contribute by providing as much as you know or suspect for the sake of research!

Very interesting!

May I assume that you have had success breeding Cardinal shrimp using this exact recipe for water preparation?

Did you breed your shrimp in the tank pictured in your other thread? Bare bottom--no substrate?

Could you also please share with us what you fed your shrimp?

Thank you!

[willw]

Hello there, I haven't kept shrimp in it yet - I've been waiting for the tank to mature and the right opportunity to get some good specimens; but I will be soon! I hope that this will enable me to breed them with more ease.

Not so sure what exactly it is I will feed them yet. Definitely naturally growing bio-film in the tank and I believe there has been success with the brand Ocean Nutrition.

[plisboa]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this recepie should only be tested in wild cought shrimps, right???
I ask because my Cardinal are doing so well that I don't even consider changing anything at all...

And, what bennefits can we expect from the use of this recepie?

Thanks and good luck!

[willw]

Hi Plisboa,

I think this recipe can be tested on both wild caught and captive bred shrimp - I can't see any reason why the recipe should only be restricted to wild caught specimens.

You are probably lucky with your local water parameters - many people don't have the correct water from tap to keep and breed these shrimp.

What can the recipe do for you? Simple answer: make breeding Caridina dennerli much easier; that's the hope anyway.

I went to a seminar held by Chris Lukhaup yesterday and he said that a salt mix recipe has been developed by the Logemännern brothers in Hamburg. He said beforehand only a few people could breed the shrimp, now with this new salt mix, he knows of 50-60 people who can breed them.

[imke_j]

MgO*1 0.0264g
MgSO4•7H2O 0.0037g
CaCO3 0.0281g
CaCl2•2H2O 0.0015g
Na2SO4 0.0025g
KCl 0.0003g

Hi Will, thanks for posting this! Can you please explain which '•' means?

Besides, the Crowe study from 2008: "The biogeochemistry of tropical lakes: A case study from Lake Matano, Indonesia" has been funded by the Nickel mining industry, deeply interested in Sulawesi:

"We thank the International Nickel Company (INCO) Canada and PT INCO Tbk. for their financial and logistical support of both field and laboratory work. Support for Sean A. Crowe was partly provided by a Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council (NSERC) Industrial Partnership Scholarship sponsored by INCO Canada."

Do you think the results and conclusions follow scientific rules?

[Lexinverts]

Besides, the Crowe study from 2008: "The biogeochemistry of tropical lakes: A case study from Lake Matano, Indonesia" has been funded by the Nickel mining industry, deeply interested in Sulawesi:

"We thank the International Nickel Company (INCO) Canada and PT INCO Tbk. for their financial and logistical support of both field and laboratory work. Support for Sean A. Crowe was partly provided by a Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council (NSERC) Industrial Partnership Scholarship sponsored by INCO Canada."

Do you think the results and conclusions follow scientific rules?

Imke, this study was published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal (Limnology and Oceanography), published by the American Society of Limnology and Oceanography.
This is a respected scientific society with 4000 members and is the largest limnographic/oceanographic scientific society in the world.

When a paper is published in a peer-reviewed journal, such as this one, it is reviewed by 3 experts in the field of limnology/oceanography. The job of the reviewers is to determine whether the study is reasonable and that the conclusions are well-founded. The journal editor, also an expert scientist, then reviews the recommendations of the reviewers, and makes a determination about whether the paper should be published.

I see no reason to doubt the conclusions of the paper just because they received some funding from industry. It very common for industry to fund basic science, and it is up to the reviewers and the journal editor to determine wheter any conflicts of interest exist. Papers written simply to advance the business interests of funding sources, and not based on good science, would almost always be rejected by reviewers and editors.

[willw]

imke_j

That '•' shows that the compound is a hydrate.
E.g. MgSO4•7H2O means that for every one mole of anhydrous (without water) MgSO4, there are seven moles of H2O attached. Any hydrated compound will have that dot, and those waters attached will change the molar mass.

Lexinverts is right about the paper being peer-reviewed but you raise and interesting question for me to include in my investigation Also, I contacted Sean and he kindly gave me his recipe that he'd been working on, himself.

[imke_j]

Thanks to you both for answering my questions. I know I am a skeptic witch sometimes

[willw]

you're not a witch imke_j - just a moderator

So, who's up for trying it out? I'm guessing I'll be the first guinea pig seeing as I'm acquiring a specimen in the next few weeks. I have a lot of hope after the promising readings I got after adding the salt mix.

pH: 7.9
GH: 2°
KH: 2°
Electrical Conductivity: 166 μS/cm
TDS: 179 ppm