Wardley premium algea discs

[DADude]

Wardley premium algea discs:
Ingredients: Spirulina algea meal, corn gluten feed, corn gluten meal, corn destillers dried grains, wheat fluor, wheat germ, wheat gluten, wheat middlings, linseed meal, canola meal, dehulled soybean meal, soy protein concentrate, pea protein, brewers dried yeast,, corn fluor, rice fluor, dehydrated alfalfa meal, soy protein isolate, ground barley, calcium carbonate, soybean oil, spinach powder, dried lecithin, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin c), dicalsium phosphate, choline chloride, vitamin a acetate, d-alphatocopherol acetate, cholecalciferol (source of vitamin d3), calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, ethoxyquin (a preservative), thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, riboflavin, cyanocobalamin (source of vitamin b12, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite.

Is this food shrimp safe?

aquasana: Water conditioner is necessery to nautralise the chlorine and chloramines from tapwater, reduce the heavy metal pollutening effects of chemicals within the tapwater and to prepare the water of the aquarium for your fish. It is enchanted with aloa vera a special natural colloid, wich protacts the surface and gills of both marine and freshwater fish reducing stress when changing water.

is it shrimp safe and is it necessery?

aquasafe: is it shrimp safe and is it necessery?

[cheesenips]

I havent tried the Wardley brand discs but I have used other algea discs that have simialar ingredients "manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate".

IMO they should be safe since the actually amounts of these metals are very small and should not have a negative effect on shrimp as opposed to using warm water from you facet which may have significant amounts harmful heavy metals.

With Aquasafe, I havent used this product. I use SeaChem Prime for my water conditioning needs. But in order for tap water to be shrimp safe chorine and chloramine should be elimated from the water since shrimp are sensitive to them.

[Jane of Upton]

I had an issue with a type of food which I believe had harmful amounts of copper in it (New Life Spectrum fish food). I have since heard from other hobbyists that they too have stopped feeding this food in tanks with shrimp. I also had some Wardley's Shrimp Pellets, which also listed a copper-derivative ingredient. I have eliminated ALL foods that contain copper, and I believe my shrimp are healthier for it.

Copper Sulfate and Copper Proteinate are surprisingly common ingredients. I no longer will buy foods with copper ingredients in them. I had a large colony of Cherry Reds die off, and because the oldest ones died off first, it suggested some sort of cumulative toxicity. (Other causes usually affect the youngest individuals first). Individuals I'd put into a grow out tank (with the same water source, but different food) were fine.

Its just my 2¢, but I'm sworn off anything that contains copper.
-Jane

[WhiteSheep]

I had an issue with a type of food which I believe had harmful amounts of copper in it (New Life Spectrum fish food). I have since heard from other hobbyists that they too have stopped feeding this food in tanks with shrimp. I also had some Wardley's Shrimp Pellets, which also listed a copper-derivative ingredient. I have eliminated ALL foods that contain copper, and I believe my shrimp are healthier for it.

Copper Sulfate and Copper Proteinate are surprisingly common ingredients. I no longer will buy foods with copper ingredients in them. I had a large colony of Cherry Reds die off, and because the oldest ones died off first, it suggested some sort of cumulative toxicity. (Other causes usually affect the youngest individuals first). Individuals I'd put into a grow out tank (with the same water source, but different food) were fine.

Its just my 2¢, but I'm sworn off anything that contains copper.
-Jane

If I'm not wrong, the chemical that carries oxygen in many crustaceans contains copper (it's in their blood). Tiny amounts are good. Perhaps the addition of supplemental copper compounds in the products you used is over-kill for the shrimps.

[will5]

Hi I am using HIKARI TROPICAL algae wafers. This stuff is loaded with calcium i.e. calcium pantothenate, calcium iodate. Although I do not have any shrimp yet :cry: Been trying to get my fins on some red cherries for a while now.

[Jane of Upton]

Yes, some invertebrates have an oxygen-binding carrier with copper (rather than iron). But this employs copper as a MICROnutrient. The TINY tiny amounts needed are miniscule compared to the toxic levels that can accumulate from absorption through food intake. There is more than enough that comes in through other means (the natural starting concentration in the water itself, as well as what is absorbed when even very cold water travels through copper pipes, rocks and/or sand with amounts that are present, but undetectable with common test kits, even dust!) to satisfy that need. Plus, the element is recycled when the body breaks down the oxygen carriers and constructs new molecules. Its not "used up" with a need to replenish it. Its a matter of degree, and I, for one, do not feed any foods that have enough of a content of copper-derivative to list it in the ingredients.

Copper levels that are deemed acceptable for humans (by water regulatory authorities) can actually be lethal to fish. A level of 1.3 ppm or less Cu is the standard acceptable to humans yet the level "acceptable" to fish is only 0.02 (The Water Encylopedia, 2nd Ed. 1990). That means that fish require that copper levels be 65 times lower than for humans. In ranking 'heavy metals' in order of toxicity, mercury and copper are the most toxic of heavy metals (Sposito G. 1986 as cited in Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, Walstad 2003).

Even elements that are necessary as micronutrients can be toxic. Iron, in large concentrations, is toxic to humans, although it is absolutely necessary for hemoglobin production. Hemophiliacs who receive multiple transfusions of whole blood can experience iron toxicity. Even lead, which can produce major damage to our human nervous systems in tiny concentrations, is necessary in micronutrient amounts for some of our enzymatic functions.

Copper is used to eradicate snails because of its toxicity to invertebrates. For the majority of shrimp keepers, an insufficient amount of copper will be a highly unlikely problem - much more common is the surplus, and resulting toxicity. Plants will take up some heavy metals, and are very useful as a "sink", especially in newly setup aquariums.

I do not add or dose any products, so these could not have been a source of copper. Other hobbyists locally have had a similar experience with this food, and I observed all the signs of classic copper toxicity - reduced fertility, followed by the die off of adults, rather than fry or juveniles. Water quality issues usually affect the younger shrimp first. In fact, one local shrimp breeder sold shrimp to a very nice LFS, and even instructed them not to feed any foods containing copper. He even went so far as to write these instructions on the dealer's tank for potential shrimp keepers.

-Jane

[Beviking]

Hi I am using HIKARI TROPICAL algae wafers. This stuff is loaded with calcium i.e. calcium pantothenate, calcium iodate. Although I do not have any shrimp yet :cry: Been trying to get my fins on some red cherries for a while now.

Hello will5, if you haven't found any cherries yet, let me know.

Nice reply Jane!

-Be

[will5]

Hi Beviking i can't pm anybody yet. But can you pm me??

[Beviking]

Hmm, I'll try! Have to type at least 10 characters or I can't post this reply...there, that should do it :rolleyes:

Sorry, I tried but you can't receive or send pm's until you hit 20 post. Frustrating I know! Send me a message using this username at earthlink dot net.

Be

[WhiteSheep]

Yes, some invertebrates have an oxygen-binding carrier with copper (rather than iron). But this employs copper as a MICROnutrient. The TINY tiny amounts needed are miniscule compared to the toxic levels that can accumulate from absorption through food intake. There is more than enough that comes in through other means (the natural starting concentration in the water itself, as well as what is absorbed when even very cold water travels through copper pipes, rocks and/or sand with amounts that are present, but undetectable with common test kits, even dust!) to satisfy that need. Plus, the element is recycled when the body breaks down the oxygen carriers and constructs new molecules. Its not "used up" with a need to replenish it. Its a matter of degree, and I, for one, do not feed any foods that have enough of a content of copper-derivative to list it in the ingredients.

Copper levels that are deemed acceptable for humans (by water regulatory authorities) can actually be lethal to fish. A level of 1.3 ppm or less Cu is the standard acceptable to humans yet the level "acceptable" to fish is only 0.02 (The Water Encylopedia, 2nd Ed. 1990). That means that fish require that copper levels be 65 times lower than for humans. In ranking 'heavy metals' in order of toxicity, mercury and copper are the most toxic of heavy metals (Sposito G. 1986 as cited in Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, Walstad 2003).

Even elements that are necessary as micronutrients can be toxic. Iron, in large concentrations, is toxic to humans, although it is absolutely necessary for hemoglobin production. Hemophiliacs who receive multiple transfusions of whole blood can experience iron toxicity. Even lead, which can produce major damage to our human nervous systems in tiny concentrations, is necessary in micronutrient amounts for some of our enzymatic functions.

Copper is used to eradicate snails because of its toxicity to invertebrates. For the majority of shrimp keepers, an insufficient amount of copper will be a highly unlikely problem - much more common is the surplus, and resulting toxicity. Plants will take up some heavy metals, and are very useful as a "sink", especially in newly setup aquariums.

I do not add or dose any products, so these could not have been a source of copper. Other hobbyists locally have had a similar experience with this food, and I observed all the signs of classic copper toxicity - reduced fertility, followed by the die off of adults, rather than fry or juveniles. Water quality issues usually affect the younger shrimp first. In fact, one local shrimp breeder sold shrimp to a very nice LFS, and even instructed them not to feed any foods containing copper. He even went so far as to write these instructions on the dealer's tank for potential shrimp keepers.

-Jane

I guess my English isn't that good. What I meant was the copper compounds the factories added to their food. Anyway, this was interesting. I will look out for the ingredients label in the future. :)

[Herbie]

I fed my cherries those exclusively for a couple of months. Until I found this forum, to be precise. Anyhow, there will no ill effects, but I now feed Hikari because copper isn't listed. I think it would take some time to build up enough copper to be harmful, but why take a chance. I threw out the remaining Wardley wafers.

[YuccaPatrol]

I used to really like the Wardley's algae wafers for my fish because they had a lot more actual algae in them than the Hikari (and I generally HATE any Wardley's foods).

But I too tossed mine away after getting my shrimp. Just not worth risking it.

I did find a great wafer last week though. It is the Omega One Super Veggie wafer. It has kelp and spirulina as the first ingredients which is great for our shrimp that eat lots of algae material. No copper in it at all.

I do have the hikari flakes too, and will keep using them for fish.