CRS with Caridina Dennerle

[ash]

I saw some caridian dennerle in the LFS and water looks like around ph7. I read that the water it comes from is around ph7.4

CRS prefers lower PH but I have been keeping mine only slightly lower.

Anyone have any idea if I can mix them with my CRS? Will they interbreed as well? :D

[madlan]

Cardinals require soft high pH water (8.0), CRS prefer soft low pH (6.5) so not really compatible.
If you want both to thrive then they really need their own setups.

Lower grade CRS would probably survive in higher pH water but they certainly wouldn't thrive!

[ash]

I already understand that but I guess I didn't put my point well across.

Generally we all know that CRS go for lower PH like 6.5, Caridina Dennerle in wiki stated the water is ph7.4. I already mentioned I am aware of the ph in my initial post.

*Source Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caridina_dennerli

I know people who successfully breed CRS in ph7.0. While I will say that wiki may not always be fully accurate, so may the waters in Sulawesi. For all we know, the water there could be anything from 7.4 to 8.0. There is a good chance that caridina dennerle may breed in ph 7.0

I guess my questions will be more of:

1) Will Caridina Dennerle breed in ph 7.0?
2) Will it cross breed with CRS?
3) Any potiential issue / impact from the cross breeding?
4) Will the species co-exist peacefully together or will one of the species eat / fight the other species?

[madlan]

I could not find any definitive answer on interbreeding but I do not believe it's a problem. (I cannot find any experienced keepers that have kept them together)
Cardinals are quite aggressive between the group, they may harass the CRS?
The differing temperature requirements could be an issue?

[willw]

Hi there, I'm currently collecting all the stated water parameters that C. Dennerli breed in over the internet.


the water there could be anything from 7.4 to 8.0

1) pH scale is a log scale - aka there is a BIG jump between pH 7 and 7.5. I can tell you after trawling through lots of sites that a pH of at least 8-8.6 is usually recorded in Lake Matano.

2) Bee shrimp (Caridina maculata) and Cardinal Shrimp (Caridina Dennerli) are two different species, originate in different parts of the world, are morphologically different and many credible sources have said they doubt that even the shrimp from the same lake interbreed. Short answer, no they probably don't.

3 + 4) I think the shrimp will be more concerned about trying to stay alive than focus on these issues :P

[ash]

madlan > hmmm.. aggressiveness is one of my concerns.. wondering if it is worth testing or not. Temp is less of concern.

CRS ideal is 22 to 25 - I kept CRS at 28 before without any issue. Currently keeping them ard 24.5 to 27

Cardinals ideal is 25-29 I think - should not have any issue keeping them slightly lower

willw > Yeah, PH is the main concern other than the 2 species killing each other! I don't think keeping alive is a major issue if they don't kill each other. lol.
but I am concern if they will be too stress from the lower ph.. hmm..

[Scorpio]

The presence of boisterous species such as CRS will make the Cardinal shrimp more retiring and timid. Keeping these two species together will mean you are always compromising the parameters (even with temperature!) for one of the two, it is not worth mixing them. They will not hybridise, C. dennerli were not receptive to the the pheromone released by CRS females when I tried; and they are probably even isolated by sexual anatomy.

Even in the luckiest case that there are no problems, there will never be any benefits to keeping them together.

[ash]

Ooo.. you tried breeding them together?

[blacksheep998]

I know people who successfully breed CRS in ph7.0. While I will say that wiki may not always be fully accurate, so may the waters in Sulawesi. For all we know, the water there could be anything from 7.4 to 8.0. There is a good chance that caridina dennerle may breed in ph 7.0

PH in my CRS tank ranges from 7.2-7.4 and can occasionally spike up to 7.6 if I miss a water change. I have no idea why the pH is so high but that's not really the point right now, all I'm saying is that my shrimp seem to do fine in it and even breed at a slow but fairly regular pace.

[Senior Shrimpo]

I really don't understand what you're trying here.

Caridinals like pH of ~8, kH of 5 and gH of 3 (to best of my knowledge) as well as a temp of 80 (around 30 celsius I believe)
Bee shrimp like a pH of ~6, kH of 0 and gH of 5/6 as well as temp of 71 (around 21 celsius I believe)

At best bee shrimp can survive at pH of 7, and that is SURVIVE not THRIVE. I doubt they'd be breeding at 7 in higher grades, might be dying off. Gh/kh values are different as well and would cause molting issues in both. The temp is really not negotiable... keeping Bee shrimp in 25o+ leads to die offs, and keeping a caridinal in 25o would be too cold for it (they'd probably die)

There is no real middle ground that I know of. What is the point of such a costly experiment that is 99% chance a waste of money?

[Zuris]

As i can see you already decided to go for this adventure, so go ahead.
In my opinion, you may success to make it, BUT your shrimps won't thrive, so I don't see any point for that....w/e

[blacksheep998]

I really don't understand what you're trying here.

Caridinals like pH of ~8, kH of 5 and gH of 3 (to best of my knowledge) as well as a temp of 80 (around 30 celsius I believe)
Bee shrimp like a pH of ~6, kH of 0 and gH of 5/6 as well as temp of 71 (around 21 celsius I believe)

At best bee shrimp can survive at pH of 7, and that is SURVIVE not THRIVE. I doubt they'd be breeding at 7 in higher grades, might be dying off. Gh/kh values are different as well and would cause molting issues in both. The temp is really not negotiable... keeping Bee shrimp in 25o+ leads to die offs, and keeping a caridinal in 25o would be too cold for it (they'd probably die)

There is no real middle ground that I know of. What is the point of such a costly experiment that is 99% chance a waste of money?

My S-SS CRS breed and thrive in water with a pH ranging between 7 and 7.4, I've only got a few SSS but they seem to be doing thriving as well. They aren't breeding yet but they're still a little small for that so I dont think the pH will be a problem so long as they're acclimated very slowly.

The temp will probably be bigger issues. My CRS greatly slow breeding when their temp gets above 75F. In the summer it got as high as 78F a few days. I didn't notice any deaths beyond a couple older shrimp that were likely on their way out anyway, but they weren't thriving like they are now.

[crasher_rider]

I put 6 Caridina dennerli in my tank with CRS(SS), (SSS), blue pearl, chocolate, fire red, rili, yamato, rainbow, cherry, sakura, all survive except sulawesi, they disappear, not sure want happen could be attacked and eaten by others or maybe too cold(23 degree celsius) PH too low(around 7). When you mix sulawesi with CRS is nice to view but did not last....a waste of money....

[lucas_1957]

I put 6 Caridina dennerli in my tank with CRS(SS), (SSS), blue pearl, chocolate, fire red, rili, yamato, rainbow, cherry, sakura, all survive except sulawesi, they disappear, not sure want happen could be attacked and eaten by others or maybe too cold(23 degree celsius) PH too low(around 7). When you mix sulawesi with CRS is nice to view but did not last....a waste of money....

I dont understand why you want to do this, 23 deg is obviously too cold for sulawesis. :( Also, in case you dont know, blue pearl, chocolate, fire red, rili cherry and sakura will all hybridise and you will get the wild form of the shrimp.

[crasher_rider]

That's a small tank in office. I think office is not suitable the white leg. So far that no cross breed. Planning to move shrimp. Office space is limited. Thank for advice.

[duchatinh]

Hey i'm in Vietnam. I have one of my friends has bred successfully CRS and Sulawesi in a tank. He used Mekong Soil. The pH is somewhere between 7.2-7.8. The pH is not quite ideally for both, especially CRS ( bad color ) . It seems the CRSs also breed, but not quite well. A clutch has less eggs and there's only 2-3 babies hatch.

[kobal]

Hello

I really don't understand why you want to mix Caridina dennerli and CRS in the same tank: the optimal water parameters are completely different. A compromise between the two will only lead to mistreating the two species.

I have kept together, for a few months only, during the cycling of a new tank, Caridina dennerli with Neocaridina zhangjiajiensis var "Blue": the water parameters were however corrects for both of them (temperature just a little too high for the Blue pearls 26°C), but the Caridina dennerli didn't breed, and the Blue pearls stopped breeding.

Since the two species have their own tank, they breed successfully.