Crystal Red Naoki Tank

[imke_j]

Dear readers, I have started a new tank on Saturday 15th 2011. The Ibaraki Akadama which I used as gravel is said to be extra hard grain. Grain size is medium, color warm brown.

Dimensions: 80 cm width, 30 cm depth, 35 cm height, Glass is 6 mm
Gravel: Ibaraki Akadama
Undergravel Filter
Eheim Canister 2224, adapted to the UGF
one driftwood with weeping moss
stock: to be chosen
lighting: 1 x 18W cold white
first fill with tap water: pH 7.5 / GH 15 / KH 12
WP after 48 hours / 2 days:
pH 6.2-6.4

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[aquamx]

Your soooo lucky mate!

Looks fantastic.

[Aus]

Eheim Canister 2213, adapted to the UGF

can you to explain process for this please?

[imke_j]

can you to explain process for this please?
There is not much to explain: I simply hooked the inlet pipe from the canister to the pipe coming from the undergravel filter. If the pipes have different sizes, you can use adapters from Eheim, and reduce size. I additionally use a sponge filter to cover all fittings and make it shrimplet-safe.

P.s. The canister is a 2224 ( and not a 2213)

[Aus]

is it best way for filter shrimp tank?
or to air pipe sponge filter ok to?
i appreciate advice for this question thankyou

[imke_j]

is it best way for filter shrimp tank?
or to air pipe sponge filter ok to?
i appreciate advice for this question thankyou
There is not BEST filtration for a shrimp tank, it must simply suit to your tank and fully run the nitrification cycle. I suggest you open a new thread for your question and give some more details on what you have planned. Besides, this article might be good as basic lecture:
http://www.shrimpnow.com/content.php/252-Basics-of-Filtration-and-Types-of-Filters

[bikersoy]

Imke very good idea.
Here in my country is the closest thing akadama Tokoname, but the price is higher than if I buy a special substrate for shrimp.
The sack of 10 kilos is 25 Euros without counting the cost of transport.
So discard the idea.
But this is much harder akadama, that has been treated in an oven at temperatures of 1200C °, which prevents the akadama time apart, and go all the soil from clumping.

[mordalphus]

Awesome setup, Imke. Do you plan on adding anything to increase oxygen content? Air-driven sponge or raising the spraybar over the water line?

[imke_j]

Awesome setup, Imke. Do you plan on adding anything to increase oxygen content? Air-driven sponge or raising the spraybar over the water line?

Yes, I do plan an additionally air driven sponge, with is now used for a temporarily oto home. As I have been tied up with some private tasks lately, I just wanted to let the Ibaraki tank run for a week and fix all what misses now then ;)

[mordalphus]

Ahh, great! Can't wait to see what you end up doing with this tank :D

[bikersoy]

That variety will keep in that tank

[Frank]

I have a bag of that Akadama brand but not tested so far. Let us know how it works.

[mickdeja]

Lookin great so far. Love starting new projects.

[Kazuya]

Nice set up.
May I ask where you got your UGF from?

[imke_j]

Nice set up.
May I ask where you got your UGF from?

We have a lot of shops here offering UGFs; please google for WaveReef Bodenfilter STF-32 to find my supplier.

[Kazuya]

Thanks Imke,

I have found a site but it seems it does not translate well with google translator or babelfish.
I am looking for 2 size (if you would help me out in which I would have to get)
1 is for a 60x30x36 tank and the other is 45x24x30.

[lingistis]

Nice Imke :)

Did you put the Ibaraki Akadama gravel ontop of the undergravel filter or is there something inbetween them e.g. some other type of gravel?

[imke_j]

Thank you all for your comments and interest :)


Did you put the Ibaraki Akadama gravel ontop of the undergravel filter or is there something inbetween them e.g. some other type of gravel?
I use pure Akadama, no other gravel or layer this time.

For the shrimp specie it will house, I still wait whether my Princess Bee x Crystal Red cross will be successful. If yes, I will house this hybrids later in this tank. IF no, I might head for some Crystal Black, Princess Bee or caridina trifasciata.

Here are the water parameter from day 9:

pH: 6.0-6.2
GH 6-7
KH: 0-1
NO2: 0.05

I guess the NO2 peak still has to come. I will wait with the first water change at last another week.

[bikersoy]

That water used for this assembly, tap water or reverse osmosis water or a mixture of the two

[imke_j]

The first fill was done with hard tap water (see post #1), the next water changes will also be done with tap, as I am lacking technical equipment. However, water changes with softer, adapted water would be better.

[bikersoy]

But over time it can be used up and no longer akadama reduce kh?

[bikersoy]

There is not much to explain: I simply hooked the inlet pipe from the canister to the pipe coming from the undergravel filter. If the pipes have different sizes, you can use adapters from Eheim, and reduce size. I additionally use a sponge filter to cover all fittings and make it shrimplet-safe.

P.s. The canister is a 2224 ( and not a 2213)

Imke Sorry, I try to understand the configuration of your filter but do not distinguish well in the photo and I see more information on his blog.
If I understand, you have the canister Who's Online aspiration to filter floor fireplaces.
Am I right?
I have used this system in the polls of 54 liters with a 2211 for a year and I really like this system over time the substrate is very dirty.
In a retrofit I did was a combination of both.
On one hand the soil filter and the other connected to a canister filter Eheim prefilter, I believe that this combination is better in the long run that is not saturated as the ground

[imke_j]

But over time it can be used up and no longer akadama reduce kh?
Yes, you are right.

Concerning the filter configuration it is: UGH->canister->tank. As I clean my gravel really often, I have no mud or waste clogging the filtration line. For sure, using a pre-filter before the canister can extend the maintenance intervals for the external filter.

[bikersoy]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_z1duqA_v8pM/TasfixPt8YI/AAAAAAAACW0/_iD3b89pqs0/s600/gambario%20003.JPG

The prefilter is to avoid that small shrimp are sucked up and end up inside the canister

[Kazuya]

Most people that I have talk to in the US are using the UGF connected to there Eheim filter then a separate sponge filter on the side.

If I understand you correctly, you are using your inflow connected to the prefilter which goes to your canister.
What do you have connect to the UGF?


Difícil entenderlo con tu foto.
Difficult to understand with your picture.

Si te entiendo correcto tu usas la conexión de salida y conectas el prefilto para que vaya al Eheim.
Con que conectas el UGF?

[bikersoy]

Better with a video



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jj9-Iotjao

[Fento]

I think it's an UGF actioned by an air pump and appart from that, a canister with a prefilter.
Am I right?

Creo que es un filtro de placas accionado por una bomba de aire y aparte, un externo con un prefiltro. Me equivoco?

[bikersoy]

In my case is a UGF is powered with compressed air, a separate pre-filter to the input of an EHEIM 2071

[imke_j]

Day 16:
ph: 6.0-6.5

no water changes until today, no issues with algae or so.

[logi-cat]

how good is akadama for plants?

[Shrimp101]

Better with a video



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jj9-Iotjao

What ia the green thing floating at top? Sorry im new lol

[imke_j]

how good is akadama for plants?
Akadama is good for plants but nutrient low, so you have to add fertilizer for a planted tank.

[HLINIK]

What ia the green thing floating at top? Sorry im new lol

right side Lemna minor

in the centre Riccia fluitans

left side Pistia stratiotes

[Shrimp101]

right side Lemna minor

in the centre Riccia fluitans

left side Pistia stratiotes

You mean duckweed?

[imke_j]

I have been asked, what is special on Ibaraki. This Akadama is said to be extra hard, which has the advantages that it can be used with UGF and will not dissolve. As the Tsunami catastrophe lead to supply difficulties with the most use brand 'Double Line Brand', shrimp shops found this new type of Akadama. The bags looks like this:

http://shrimpsider.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/ibaraki_akadama.jpg

[imke_j]

The tank has developed very well, and I moved my CR Naoki group into it. Additionally now use bio CO2. I am sorry I still have not found the time to do a picture of the tank, it will follow.

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More pictures of this shrimp group can be found in the former thread:
http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/7635-My-Crystal-Red-Breeding-Tank-from-Germany

[Soothing Shrimp]

I like the red legs on the one on the right.

[Shrimp101]

I like the red legs on the one on the right.

Ikr it also look like they were standing with there tails

[Bedfordshire]

So do you think its better than the double red line now?

[imke_j]

So do you think its better than the double red line now?

Both are good, no need to say Ibaraki is better.

[imke_j]

Was finally ready to take some pictures from the tank. I use air-drive-sponge and UGF-canister filtration, as well as Bio Co2.

The floating plants are for lowering NO3.

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[Kazuya]

Additionally now use bio CO2.

What is Bio CO2? Is this pressurized CO2?

Also how many cm of soil did you use?

Great tank.

[Regekompis]

Where do you get this akadama or where do they sell this stuff? Price?

[Bedfordshire]

I recently bought a whole lot of the Shohin fine grain stuff and the bonsai seller actually refused to sell me any more as he said something about being loyal to bonsai keepers & not shrimp keepers... & didnt like it bring used fir something other than trees lol. These bonsai chaps are an odd bunch indeed!

[imke_j]

What is Bio CO2? Is this pressurized CO2?
Also how many cm of soil did you use?

Bio CO2 is done in a bottle by yeast and sugar. It is a cheaper to compressed CO2, but bit a little dangerous method, as you cannot control bubbles and need some experience in which amount you set up. Soil height is around 6 cm. I am happy you like the set up :)


Where do you get this akadama or where do they sell this stuff? Price?
Ibaraki is sold in Germany by some shrimp shops for around 18 Euro a bag (14L). Try Google Germany search, please.

[aquamx]

Hi Imke

Did you use the noodles above the UGF on this tank? Could you explain to me your reasoning for this? I'm very interested in this method.

Thanks again

Brad

[imke_j]

Did you use the noodles above the UGF on this tank? Could you explain to me your reasoning for this? I'm very interested in this method.

Hey Brad, what do you mean with 'noodles'? I am sorry, I don't understand.:huh:

[aquamx]

Hi

In another of your threads you placed ceramic noodles between the substrate and UGF.

Curious as to why you did that 

[Kazuya]

It's to make your whole substrate into a biological filter.

[aquamx]

Would the bacteria grow on such a smooth surface? Maybe something with a more porus surface would be better?

What is the difference between putting this between substrate and UGF and putting it under the UGF plate?

Thanks

[Kazuya]

It's just like putting the rings in a canister filter. Over time it will grow bacteria.

As for your second question. I would not know if there is a difference.
I used the same method.

[imke_j]

What is the difference between putting this between substrate and UGF and putting it under the UGF plate?


You are wrong: I always put the UGF plates first, then ceramic rings (Lava, Siporax or else), last active soil. This is how I did it here (http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/7864-Fluval-Stratum-Breeding-Tank-(20L)?highlight=naoki), too.

Some guys even might put it below the UGF, to have anaerobe zones - I don't know for sure.

[aquamx]

Yes that's what I meant. It might be a language barrier here. I usually put it under the plate. I was wondering why you put it above.

Thank you.

[bikersoy]

You can use volcanic gravel or expanded clay (arlita) is much more economical.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e8l8nHdtZds/Tke3WRnFqYI/AAAAAAAADHA/ok95C78pB8I/s640/Montaje%252520gambario%25252096%252520litros%25252 0001.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MGZk9pLo3Us/Tke3m0e1fJI/AAAAAAAADHc/2UktAKnRfZY/s640/Montaje%252520gambario%25252096%252520litros%25252 0008.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QOkmuftL-RY/Tke3xAMtg_I/AAAAAAAADH4/YmBnF5GdOTM/s640/Montaje%252520gambario%25252096%252520litros%25252 0013.jpg

[imke_j]

Have 5 berried females now, waiting for them to hatch the eggs.

[ebisan]

Congrats! How would you rate their PH lowring properties?
Are they still able to hold down the PH?

[imke_j]

Congrats! How would you rate their PH lowring properties?
Are they still able to hold down the PH?

I am still satisfied with this Akadama I used. However, the CO2 I am injecting helps keeping the pH readings low. Here are the water parameter from today:

2011-10-05, 10 a.m.
pH 6.4
GH 8
NO3 1-5 (dream parameters for my tank, as tap comes with around 30)

[seic]

- thank you very much for this inspirational thread
- combination of UGF + can. filter + filtr. media + akadama is simply GREAT ;)

[soonhong]

I am still satisfied with this Akadama I used. However, the CO2 I am injecting helps keeping the pH readings low. Here are the water parameter from today:

2011-10-05, 10 a.m.
pH 6.4
GH 8
NO3 1-5 (dream parameters for my tank, as tap comes with around 30)

Hi Imke_j,

Mind to share how you manage to keep the NO3 between 1-5...Thanks.

[imke_j]

Mind to share how you manage to keep the NO3 between 1-5...Thanks.

I am still finding out, what is the best way to keep Nitrates low. As recommended by other users and based on own recherches, I now:


lowered water changes frequency, as my tap has higer NO3
try to not overfeed and remove detritus and left food
added swimming plants and emers plants, that suck up nitrates (as they use it for growing) (http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/7959-Ibaraki-Akadama-Tank-(Crystal-Red-Naoki)?p=71256&viewfull=1#post71256)
used a filter pad of JBL Nitrate EX in the canister (it must be re-activated from time to time with saltwater)


Best way to have low nitrates is, to use an RO system for water changes and have plants in the tank.

[soonhong]

I am still finding out, what is the best way to keep Nitrates low. As recommended by other users and based on own recherches, I now:


lowered water changes frequency, as my tap has higer NO3
try to not overfeed and remove detritus and left food
added swimming plants and emers plants, that suck up nitrates (as they use it for growing) (http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/7959-Ibaraki-Akadama-Tank-(Crystal-Red-Naoki)?p=71256&viewfull=1#post71256)
used a filter pad of JBL Nitrate EX in the canister (it must be re-activated from time to time with saltwater)


Best way to have low nitrates is, to use an RO system for water changes and have plants in the tank.

Thanks for your reply and appreciate...

[logi-cat]

i like the simplicity of the tank

[imke_j]

From September on, my Naoki CR bred again and I now have a horde full of baby CR. As I leave for longer holiday in December, I will give some away tomorrow. Besides, I separated the now older males as I want the young ones to mate the females.

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[Summit MicroFarm]

Gorgeous Imke!
Thank you for such a detailed thread. I always love to see other peoples set ups and further seeing there tank from conception to spawning is super cool.
Great job. Your CRS are beautiful.

:alien:

[Kazuya]

Can you take a FTS of how the tank looks now?

[imke_j]

Can you take a FTS of how the tank looks now?

Sorry, sometimes I simply forget that the tank might also be of interest :joking:

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on the left side, we have air-driven sponge filter an bio CO2
on the right side, we have the UGF outlet to canister, shrimp safe due to sponge
floating plants on the surface, to keep NO3 low
three roots with moss for the babies ( I am ver bad in keeping the moss names in mind; I guess these are: fissidens fontanus, weeping moss and stringy moss)

[logi-cat]

Your shrimps look amazing.

[Speedie408]

Great job to your success and nice looking shrimp!

[imke_j]

I am in a bad mood this evening >( What was a gut feeling first, a silent observation and suspicion, turns out to be some unpleasant incident... It looks as if my Akadama starts DISSOLVING!

First, I thought I that I had too much detritus, mud from food and leftover. Thought the dust now seems to be dissolved grain. I am still not so sure about what is going on and took some of the soil out and tried washing it, which took very long time until it got cleaner.

As I am leaving for holidays soon, this is a real big problem for me. I tend to clean the tank as good as possible for now, and re-set it after my return. Besides, I have many very small juveniles, which I caught in a longtime procedure today. Overall, I am not so sure if my UGF-Canister-combination is the problem, or what the h*** is going on.

[Summit MicroFarm]

OH NO! I hope you get this issue resolved quickly. It is ALWAYS a worry when going on holiday. I have had several die-offs from leaving my shrimp in the charge of someone else. I keep my fingers crossed for you. GOOD LUCK!

:alien:

[Kazuya]

Sorry to hear Imke. That is very unfortunate.

You have only been using this soil for 4 months, correct?
I have the same soil. Similar set ups too. One with plate the other with pvc style ugf.

Please keep us (Me especially) about this problem.

Goodluck and I hope you figure it out.

[bikersoy]

It's a bit weird because even normal akadama take longer to slowdown

[psychonemo]

i have the same brand of akadama in my tanks ,since quite the same time as you , but just air filters .
i have some dust inside the soil because i didnt washe it .
it strange because this akadama look good quaity

[imke_j]

Thanks for all the warm comments, and for the PM! Already helps to manage the disaster ;)


You have only been using this soil for 4 months, correct?


Yes, Kazuya, that is right. I have been starting this tank mid of July 2011. Have been taking some pics, to show you how the problem manifests. Monika is right that perhaps I have received a bad batch, or that the Akadama might have been suffered by wrong storage or so. Although perhaps we auqarists have too few experience with this brand to judge quality, I don't know.

I have not decided yet how to go on; if to switch everything before me holidays or not.

Here are the photos:

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[Summit MicroFarm]

WOW! That is BAD!!!!!!
I have read that Akadama is fired and how hot for how long determines its hardness. Well that screams HUMAN ERROR to me. I wonder if they did not fire it correctly, or more likely labeled incorrectly..."Hard" instead of "soft". Keep us informed. We are all sympathetic to your plight.

:alien:

[psychonemo]

On french forum , Some use this akadama without problems

[morgana]

Akadama never is fired. Its a product of nature wich only where dry in the sun.
In depends of the quarrying area it is more hard or less.

[Summit MicroFarm]

Actually you are not correct. I was also not correct as Double Red line Akadama is never fired, but according to what I have read, some of the "hard" types are indeed fired like pottery to increase hardness. As I am not familiar with the brand Imke displayed, I suggested it as a possibility.
The following was copied directly from a Bonsai website selling Double Red line:

"Double Red Line brand of akadama is the most well known brand. It is not as soft as some and is not fired like the hard types. Many people use it straight for deciduous and conifers. It can be mixed with, pumice, kanuma or other favorites."

Now, obviously I have never observed the process personally. I can only pass along the research that I have compiled.


:alien:

[morgana]

Maybe „fired“ means drying on 200° Celsius. Some" harder" kinds were dryed by this higher temperatuers. The quality of Akadama depends than on this special drying process too, that’s right.

Edit: But Akadama never fired like temperatures in a pottery ( ~800°C-1200°C) . Than it becomes an other stuff, something like (Aqua-)clay. My english isn't good but I'll search for the right words.

[imke_j]

Hi, it was not an easy decision - however, I reset my tank today:

removed all soil and mud
re-used the tank water (only clear parts) as much as possible
cleaned the tank
added around 9L of black basalt gravel from the garden center (this soil is passive and will not change the tap water parameter), washed it well before using
added interiors, CO2, Zeolite and old test shrimp


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I will keep you updated; more livestock won't be added before the weekend.

[Fento]

I'm sad to hear about that unexpected trouble. I think you did the right thing reseting the tank with basalt.
What are the guesses about akadama dissolution, do you think it's a brand issue, it's because of the kind of filtration, an defectuous batch...?
I think it's not bad labelled, for example in Spain just Jirushi akadama it's said to be hard ("Hard quality"), there are a couple Ibaraki akadama brands but no mention about it's hardness (well, most of the letters are japanese, so I don't understand; anyway there's not any report from an aquaristic use). In my opinion, even that kind of observations may be just advertisement.

[imke_j]

My shrimp are well, and I had no losses after putting them in the new tank. Part of the group has been separated into a 20L nano - this is just in case something happens when I am on holidays. I still cannot say what the problem was, but tend to conclude I have had a bad package. A friend of mine recently has done 40 tanks with Akadama Iberaki: whenever she experiences problems, I will tell you - until now, all is okay.

Here are my critters (attention - with music!)
yVBI8o6fa5s

[bikersoy]

I really like the substrate, the colors look better shrimp.
The truth is a big problem of his akadama, his experience will serve to prevent others from committing the same mistake.

[Yiannis]

I've been watching this thread for the past few weeks and last Saturday I decided to order from a local Bonsai e-shop a bag of Akadama Ibaraki soil in order to reset one of my existing Amazonia tanks.
I received the bag (9.8 Kgs) today but..I really don't know what to do with it now, after I read and saw what happened to Imke's tank. I decided to wait untill some more people let us know if they had the same bad experience with Akadama turning into..dust. Please share your experience with this product.
Cheers to everyone!

[psychonemo]

For me it works very well but i dont have UGF

[Yiannis]

For me it works very well but i dont have UGF

How long is it since you've started your Akadama tank?
Thanks for your reply!

[Kazuya]

I have the same akadama that Imke uses.
2 tank setups. Both with this soil on the bottom of my other substrate with UGF's.
Still does not show any bad signs and is doing great holding up and keeping pH down.

Will keep checking in my thread to keep anyone that is interested in this soil.

Could just have been a bad batch.

[psychonemo]

i got 3 tanks (54L 60L 10L) with this akadama.
i dont know if its because i didnt wash it , or if im feeding a lot ,or because you got problems , but i think i have a lot of dust at the bottom of the soil

[imke_j]

Some new shots of my brood:

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Concerning the Akadama problems, I now resume that I simply had a bad bag, which has not been produced or stored properly.

[Murad]

Nice looking brood :)

[imke_j]

A little update from the tank, now with basalt gravel:

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[Kazuya]

I'm jealous. Where do you get your shrimp from?

Great looking pictures.

[imke_j]

I'm jealous. Where do you get your shrimp from?

Great looking pictures.

Thanks Kazuya! Serach for Gamba in Heinsberg to locate the shop.

Yesterday, I stated some trouble with my water parameter:
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I have been doing a water test in my Crystal Red tank for the first time since I moved them to basalt gravel. The result was alerting:

pH 7.5
PO4 / Phosphate: 0.8 mg/l
NO3 / Nitrate: 5-10 mg/l
As the phosphate reading is way too high, I did large water change, added Zeolite, and removed unnecessary leaves/woods/moss and organic parts. My tap water has no PO4. Today, the whites of the CR already had improved massively.

[Yiannis]

Hi Imke,
about your previous substrate in this tank, the Akadama Ibaraki.. Did you come up with a conclusion after all about disolving and turning to dust? Was it a bad batch of that brand or Ibaraki does that anyway?? I have a tank running with this substrate for the last three months. Everything seems ok and my Crystals are happy...but as I noticed, it took in your case about 5 months before disolving. What should I expect in the coming months? Any experience from other hobyists?
Regards

[imke_j]

I am sorry I cannot help you with the Iberaki Akadama. Tend to say that it maybe was a bad batch, however - you never know.

[Yiannis]

Thanks for the prompt reply Imke!
I guess all I have to do is...cross my fingers and wait ! I will inform the forum about the results of this case, if it turns to be negative in the next months.

[imke_j]

As my tank has been some kind of overcrowded, i sent around 60 shrimp to a friend of mine, and kept the best for my breeding group. I now plan to run that tank bare bottom. Besides, I perhaps will soften the water (lower the KH) with RO water. When I have enough time, I will start with it next Monday.

[bikersoy]

I think is best, try to keep the CRS with a little rough water was a great idea but difficult to achieve.
Good luck with your new project, I'm also trying something so I think it is easier to work with a bare tank for breeding

[andriuslink]

What for are those leaves on the bottom?
And what flora there is on the surface (hanging upside down) of aquarium?
Thanks in advance.

[imke_j]

What for are those leaves on the bottom?
And what flora there is on the surface (hanging upside down) of aquarium?
Thanks in advance.

The leaves are stinging nettle on the photos, but I also feed walnut a lot. The swimming plants are Pistia stratiotes, to lower NO3.

[imke_j]

A little update on my Naoki CR tank:

I caught all shrimp (still around 40, mostly younger), emptied the tank, washed the basalt gravel, cleaned all filters (UGF, canister, sponge)

then added the UGF and gravel on the right side of the tank, to cover the UGF plates. rest is bare bottom for better cleaning

I filled the tank with around 40L RO water and rest tap water, which made the GH drop from 13 to 8. Added the shrimp after one night, they already seem to have better coloration and hopefully with re-start breeding. I will check if I can get my hands on some liquid bacteria boosters, for the next water changes.

To be honest, the tank had more mulm and mud as I suspected.

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[imke_j]

Another update on this tank of mine: Thanks to Liam, I have now some new stainless steel intake strainers for my canister filter. Also cleaned the tank again today. Shrimp will move back tomorrow, they are sitting in a bucket.

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