Advice for my 2x1.5x1.5 ft tank setup

[spinex]

As spoke to some shrimpnow forummers during our gathering i got a plan to custom made a 2 x 1.5 x 1.5 feet tank with IOS filter system.

I got a solenoid co2, CL300 yesterday :D and a eheim 1250 powerful pump for the coming new setup.

What's the good height for the IOS inlet and should the inlet be placed at the front or the back of the tank ? Any pro and cons of that ?

Below is my supposed tank setup. The arrow in red is my question above. What should be the height of the IOS

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/4/6/4/tank_sump.jpg

[NanoDave]

I think the tankmaker will know the best dimensions.. you probably just need to tell him how wide you want the IOS to be.. :)

The height of the vertical "??" is the height that your water level will be at. If you make too low then your fan-to-water-surface height will be more; I think you should minimise the fan-to-water-surface height for best fan cooling.

The width of the "??" is not so important, if it is not wide enough the water level will rise a bit higher than your vertical "??" height so that more can flow through the horixontal "??" width at the same time.

:)

[silane]

I think the vertical ?? as high as possible, like 95% of the height.

Horizontal ?? as large as possible, but have to ensure the inner compartment can house a pump.

[spinex]

I think the vertical ?? as high as possible, like 95% of the height.

Horizontal ?? as large as possible, but have to ensure the inner compartment can house a pump.

My Eheim can be housed external which i intend to do so there's wont be so much heat in the water.

[NanoDave]

I think it will still have heat as the heat is dispersed by the water flowing through it.. however ehiem does have a reputation for having lower heat :)

When is your tank arriving? :)

[spinex]

I think the tankmaker will know the best dimensions.. you probably just need to tell him how wide you want the IOS to be.. :)

The height of the vertical "??" is the height that your water level will be at. If you make too low then your fan-to-water-surface height will be more; I think you should minimise the fan-to-water-surface height for best fan cooling.

The width of the "??" is not so important, if it is not wide enough the water level will rise a bit higher than your vertical "??" height so that more can flow through the horixontal "??" width at the same time.

:)

:D I got a Resun CL300 chiller now so water level to fan distance not an issue now.

The IOS inlet should be at the front like what is shown on my diagram or placed at the back ?

[NanoDave]

Waaa!! So fast buy chiller ! :D How is it so working so far? Does it generate a lot of heat? Any pics?? :D

[spinex]

Waaa!! So fast buy chiller ! :D How is it so working so far? Does it generate a lot of heat? Any pics?? :D

Test it. Seem fine. Heat generated not much .. noise level also low better than my AC fan. I happen to see the same one being used by a forum bro when i buy his Eheim 1250 so i know it's acceptable to me.

I should say demension of the Resun CL300 like 40cm (length) x 60cm (height) x 50 (width/depth) ? Need to check. Quite big but can fit into my 2 x 1.5 wrought iron stand lower tier and got space left for my CO2 tank after i measured.

Photo i can take but using my lousy phone camera if you don't mind.

[NanoDave]

Take take! Low res photo better than no photo! :D What temperature did you set at? Does it run continously all the time? :)

[spinex]

Take take! Low res photo better than no photo! :D What temperature did you set at? Does it run continously all the time? :)

I test on a pail of water . This chiller my NANO cannot take it. Too much current.

Chiller run on and off base on the temperature of the water flowing through it.

[NanoDave]

when is your ios tank arriving? :)

[spinex]

when is your ios tank arriving? :)

I going overseas next week. I havent even order my wrought iron stand for my tank yet which will take 1 week. Will order it tonight or tomorrow at the LFS nearest to my house for easy collection.

Too bad didnt get the free 2x1.5.x1.5 ft tank given away FOC by someone in other forum. Or else i can save on the $60 :(

I'm always thinking how to setup or aquascape my shrimp tank so that it's nice, simple and easy to maintain.

Is moss wall any good ? :huh: Should i have gravel ? What simple plants to have ..etc. I thinking of HC carpet .... instead of big plants that need more maintainence ..etc.

Any suggestions for a simple, nice and easy maintainence shrimp tank will be welcomed.

[retardo]

IOS=Internal Overflow System?

[spinex]

IOS=Internal Overflow System?

Bingo ! You got it right :thumbsup:

[spinex]

What would be a recommended substrate for a CRS shrimp tank ?

ADA soil or Seachem Onxy .. I'm still undecided between the 2. :huh:

[silane]

ADA, ADA, ADA........ :)

At least it is proven to be working with shrimp, but I gotta warn you, initial setup of ADA has HIGH ammonia, then high Nitrate.

[retardo]

What would be a recommended substrate for a CRS shrimp tank ?

ADA soil or Seachem Onxy .. I'm still undecided between the 2. :huh:

I've heard stories of ADA soil, Flourite, Onyx, etc. having an effect on water parameters, esp when it comes to Nitrogen byproducts (as fruitpie pointed out). For this reason, I stick with plain sand or plain gravel. I think most of the problems can be avoided as long as you have a good amount of plants to cushion and absorb/use up the nitrogen byproducts.

[NanoDave]

I going overseas next week. I havent even order my wrought iron stand for my tank yet which will take 1 week. Will order it tonight or tomorrow at the LFS nearest to my house for easy collection.

Too bad didnt get the free 2x1.5.x1.5 ft tank given away FOC by someone in other forum. Or else i can save on the $60 :(

I'm always thinking how to setup or aquascape my shrimp tank so that it's nice, simple and easy to maintain.

Is moss wall any good ? :huh: Should i have gravel ? What simple plants to have ..etc. I thinking of HC carpet .... instead of big plants that need more maintainence ..etc.

Any suggestions for a simple, nice and easy maintainence shrimp tank will be welcomed.

If I were to set up a new shrimp tank I will surely make it a bare tank with only a few pieces of driftwood. That way you can keep track of all of them easier and see the pregnant shrimps. :)

[NanoDave]

I've heard stories of ADA soil, Flourite, Onyx, etc. having an effect on water parameters, esp when it comes to Nitrogen byproducts (as fruitpie pointed out). For this reason, I stick with plain sand or plain gravel. I think most of the problems can be avoided as long as you have a good amount of plants to cushion and absorb/use up the nitrogen byproducts.

Yes but plants suck up oxygen like nobodys business.. everytime I turn on the tank lights after a long period of no light my shirmps look a little off colour.. I'm begininig to suspect it has a lot to do with the oxygen content when the plants go into respiration mode..

[retardo]

Yes but plants suck up oxygen like nobodys business.. everytime I turn on the tank lights after a long period of no light my shirmps look a little off colour.. I'm begininig to suspect it has a lot to do with the oxygen content when the plants go into respiration mode..

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Oxygen intake during lights-out periods should not ever reach a point where it is hazardous to your shrimp or other fauna. Fish lose their colors during lights-out periods as well. My theory behind that is that it is not so much the oxygen content, but more a function of the fish's sleep cycle. When they sleep, they don't concentrate on the same things they do during the day (e.g., food, food, and food!), so they don't have the necessity to display their best colors. I think this may also apply to shrimp. Just a theory. :D

[NanoDave]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Oxygen intake during lights-out periods should not ever reach a point where it is hazardous to your shrimp or other fauna. Fish lose their colors during lights-out periods as well. My theory behind that is that it is not so much the oxygen content, but more a function of the fish's sleep cycle. When they sleep, they don't concentrate on the same things they do during the day (e.g., food, food, and food!), so they don't have the necessity to display their best colors. I think this may also apply to shrimp. Just a theory. :D

Hope you were right! :)

[spinex]

Hope you were right! :)

What i understand is same as Retardo. The amount of oxygen that the plants produce during your light on period is more than enough to supplement what the fish and shrimp need during the light off period.

Fish and shrimp also need to sleep and rest :D that's why the fading color after lights off. I'm pretty sure nothing to do with the oxygen content.

[NanoDave]

What i understand is same as Retardo. The amount of oxygen that the plants produce during your light on period is more than enough to supplement what the fish and shrimp need during the light off period.

Fish and shrimp also need to sleep and rest :D that's why the fading color after lights off. I'm pretty sure nothing to do with the oxygen content.

But plants also use oxygen at night, so they may use up what they produced in the day without leftover for the animals :p

[retardo]

Either way, I don't believe that plant respiration during lights-off is the cause of color change/fading in your shrimp... more just simple biology. Plants will not use up all of the available oxygen in the water. You will know you have an oxygen shortage if you find your shrimp and your fish at the water surface trying to breathe. Oxygen itself gets exchanged at the surface, especially if there is surface agitation. Your filter may also be a source of oxygen, depending on the type and setup.

Bottom line: I think you are worrying too much.

[spinex]

I have decide the height of the IOS side panel to be 2.5inch (from the top)

The total height of the tank is 18 inch. so it mean the height of the IOS panel is 18 - 2.5 = 15.5 inch. Is it too much ? Or should i go for a 18 - 2 inch = 16inch height for the panel ?

I'm afraid if the panel is only 16inch, i will always need to top up quite often to maintain the water level.

If 15.5 inch for the panel .. the water level of the tank will be quite low due to more intake to the IOS filter side.

Any ideas ??

[NanoDave]

Either way, I don't believe that plant respiration during lights-off is the cause of color change/fading in your shrimp... more just simple biology. Plants will not use up all of the available oxygen in the water. You will know you have an oxygen shortage if you find your shrimp and your fish at the water surface trying to breathe. Oxygen itself gets exchanged at the surface, especially if there is surface agitation. Your filter may also be a source of oxygen, depending on the type and setup.

Bottom line: I think you are worrying too much.

But my water inlet from the filter to the main tank is at the bottom, so maybe theres more oxygen below? :p Anyway I think you're right, it shouldn't be so easy to run out of oxygen.. :)

[NanoDave]

I have decide the height of the IOS side panel to be 2.5inch (from the top)

The total height of the tank is 18 inch. so it mean the height of the IOS panel is 18 - 2.5 = 15.5 inch. Is it too much ? Or should i go for a 18 - 2 inch = 16inch height for the panel ?

I'm afraid if the panel is only 16inch, i will always need to top up quite often to maintain the water level.

If 15.5 inch for the panel .. the water level of the tank will be quite low due to more intake to the IOS filter side.

Any ideas ??

I'm not really sure I get what you mean, but are you saying you will need to top up more water if the panel is 16 inch compared to 15.5 inch? If so, its not so... you'll need to top up the same amount of water in both cases, it is dependent on the rate of evaporation which depends on the surface area, not the height.. :)

[spinex]

I'm not really sure I get what you mean, but are you saying you will need to top up more water if the panel is 16 inch compared to 15.5 inch? If so, its not so... you'll need to top up the same amount of water in both cases, it is dependent on the rate of evaporation which depends on the surface area, not the height.. :)

My IOS is top flow in. I wonder how with ADA substrate your underflow IOS can work ? Water still can flow in ?

I'm not saying i need to top up more water. The one which is 15.5 inch will be more tolerant to water evapouration because the inlet for the IOS will be lower compare to the 16 inch. This is the vertical ?? height which i have indicated in my tank diagram.

If both tank start with the same amount of water, the one with 15.5 inch height IOS can tolerate a drop of water level of 2.5inch whereas for a 16inch height IOS, it can tolerate a drop of water level of 2 inch before the IOS stop functioning because no inflow of water to IOS compartment. Remember the height of the tank is 18inch.

[jojoecute]

Height of the IOS panel is 18 - 2.5 = 15.5 inch.
Is it Perfect, so that the flowing compartment will not dry up easily.

Remember 1 thing, tank maker will do a little bracing to hold the white tray for you to put filter wool. The bracing should be lower by a little.. so that your filter wool will rest just nice for the water flowing in.

[jojoecute]

Underflow will get trap easily...
It means the substrate will cover the underflow compartment...



My IOS is top flow in. I wonder how with ADA substrate your underflow IOS can work ? Water still can flow in ?

I'm not saying i need to top up more water. The one which is 15.5 inch will be more tolerant to water evapouration because the inlet for the IOS will be lower compare to the 16 inch. This is the vertical ?? height which i have indicated in my tank diagram.

If both tank start with the same amount of water, the one with 15.5 inch height IOS can tolerate a drop of water level of 2.5inch whereas for a 16inch height IOS, it can tolerate a drop of water level of 2 inch before the IOS stop functioning because no inflow of water to IOS compartment. Remember the height of the tank is 18inch.

[spinex]

Underflow will get trap easily...
It means the substrate will cover the underflow compartment...

That's why i wonder how NanoDave manage that :huh:

[NanoDave]

My IOS is top flow in. I wonder how with ADA substrate your underflow IOS can work ? Water still can flow in ?

I'm not saying i need to top up more water. The one which is 15.5 inch will be more tolerant to water evapouration because the inlet for the IOS will be lower compare to the 16 inch. This is the vertical ?? height which i have indicated in my tank diagram.

If both tank start with the same amount of water, the one with 15.5 inch height IOS can tolerate a drop of water level of 2.5inch whereas for a 16inch height IOS, it can tolerate a drop of water level of 2 inch before the IOS stop functioning because no inflow of water to IOS compartment. Remember the height of the tank is 18inch.

Mine is not underflow, mine is overflow too. :) (The outlet of the water from the IOS comes out from the bottom, but the water that goes to the IOS go in from the top.)

As for the water height in your main tank compartment, it will be constant at the height of your IOS overflow and will not drop so there is no water level drop to tolerate. The only water level that will drop is the water level in your IOS pump chamber. :)

[silane]

Actually underflow + undergravel plates + carefully selected size gravel, can equip a tank with dual filtration system, IOS plus undergravel filter, combination of the 2 filter result in maintainance free, unlike conventional UGF.

Mulm will eventually reach underneath the undergravel plate and end up in the IOS, which can removed easily via mechanical filtration. Gravel is virtually free from high debris accumulation, moreover there is no open to allow shrimplet from entering IOS. Moreover, ..... there are alot number of advantages offered by UGF, but one big disadvantage, that is UGF does not have a long term substainable mechcanical filtration function, but with IOS, this problem is of delimised.

[spinex]

Actually underflow + undergravel plates + carefully selected size gravel, can equip a tank with dual filtration system, IOS plus undergravel filter, combination of the 2 filter result in maintainance free, unlike conventional UGF.

Mulm will eventually reach underneath the undergravel plate and end up in the IOS, which can removed easily via mechanical filtration. Gravel is virtually free from high debris accumulation, moreover there is no open to allow shrimplet from entering IOS. Moreover, ..... there are alot number of advantages offered by UGF, but one big disadvantage, that is UGF does not have a long term substainable mechcanical filtration function, but with IOS, this problem is of delimised.

Yes my intention is also same as what NanoDave is doing.. draw water from the UGF and into the IOS compartment. This will help to make water flowing at the substrate and not causes dead/still water at the gravel.

[spinex]

Mine is not underflow, mine is overflow too. :) (The outlet of the water from the IOS comes out from the bottom, but the water that goes to the IOS go in from the top.)

As for the water height in your main tank compartment, it will be constant at the height of your IOS overflow and will not drop so there is no water level drop to tolerate. The only water level that will drop is the water level in your IOS pump chamber. :)

Now that you have make yourself clear, i understand.

If water is evaporating and we don't top up definitely water level in the main tank compartment will also drop right ?

Now i'm thinking of the height of the IOS panel to be 15inch in height. 18-3inch = 15inch.

Measured 16inch seem a bit too tall.

[silane]

Yes my intention is also same as what NanoDave is doing.. draw water from the UGF and into the IOS compartment. This will help to make water flowing at the substrate and not causes dead/still water at the gravel.

Is yours going to be an overflow or underflow?

I was referring to underflow IOS with undergravel plate, no addition pump is needed for undergravel, making use of the water from IOS to push debris down.

[NanoDave]

Now that you have make yourself clear, i understand.

I realised why you got confused now.. I think its because I ever mentioned I have an undergravel plate (not connected to filter) which I use for maintainance purpose.. I still have it by the way.. when not in use the upward pipe is capped. :)



If water is evaporating and we don't top up definitely water level in the main tank compartment will also drop right ?

no it won't drop at all... once you set it up you'll see why.. :)

[spinex]

Is yours going to be an overflow or underflow?

I was referring to underflow IOS with undergravel plate, no addition pump is needed for undergravel, making use of the water from IOS to push debris down.

Mine is overflow. But at the tankmaker workshop .. i did see 1 tank which he made has both overflow/underflow. Now maybe i can consider that option because my tank is not made yet. Only afraid in the end the substrate/gravel all stuck at the underflow inlet even though there is the UGF which should provided enough cover to prevent this from happening.

What i initally thought is that my tank will be overflow but i will put UGF then i will use a pump to connect to the UFG outlet and pump it into the IOS also.

So a underflow + overflow IOS will be better ? Sound good to me on theory. I will have to visit the tanker maker again to see properly the under/over flow setup properly again.

[silane]

Mine is overflow. But at the tankmaker workshop .. i did see 1 tank which he made has both overflow/underflow. Now maybe i can consider that option because my tank is not made yet. Only afraid in the end the substrate/gravel all stuck at the underflow inlet even though there is the UGF which should provided enough cover to prevent this from happening.



The slit of underflow goes below the UGF plates, and the slit height is at least 2 times the gravel size. Silcon glue the UGFP above the slit to ensure no chance of gravel fall in to block the slit and movement to the UGFP. These should solve your worry. :

[spinex]

The slit of underflow goes below the UGF plates, and the slit height is at least 2 times the gravel size. Silcon glue the UGFP above the slit to ensure no chance of gravel fall in to block the slit and movement to the UGFP. These should solve your worry. :

Good idea. I just need to silicon glue the part above the slit like what you suggest.

Have to visit tank maker again soon. Just called him on the phone he say no problem will put my tank order on hold 1st.

under + overflow .. sound very good. :D

[NanoDave]

Good idea. I just need to silicon glue the part above the slit like what you suggest.

Have to visit tank maker again soon. Just called him on the phone he say no problem will put my tank order on hold 1st.

under + overflow .. sound very good. :D

Sounds good :)

[spinex]

I'm no expert in IOS. In fact i'm a beginner.

This is what i come up with for the IOS design. Is that correct for an overflow and underflow IOS concept ?

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/4/6/4/IOS.jpg

[NanoDave]

I'm also no expert.. just sharing from my limited experience.. :)

1. Once you have underflow, then the water in your main tank compartment is not fixed at the overflow height I think... in fact, the height of the water level in all compartments would vary to the power of your pump..

2. From what I see from your diagram, the IOS is not very shrimpet friendly.. the top of your IOS is likely to be dry..

3. You don't really need white wool because there will not be so much waste from a shrimp tank. The waste that goes into your IOS is a very fine sediment and it will not be trapped by the wool and will end up as a thin layer below your bio media. (can be siphoned away during maintainance)


This is what my IOS works like.. however this is just a graphical representation because my IOS layout is actually in an L shape. ie section B is actually behind section A, and section C is on the right side of Section C and A.

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/5/0/5/layout_original.gif

[spinex]

Will go to the tankmaker workshop again .. likely Sun (just gave him a call). He has a tank with under/over flow running in his office.

If cannot work then just stick to overflow. The UGF just attach a pump to it and output the water to the IOS compartment. This will also achieve the same effect.