How to cool a NANO tank ?

[spinex]

I have a NANO tank .. about 6 gallon. I'm using fan to bring down the temperature to only 27-29 degree. When my light is on, the temperature hover around 28-29.

Since my tank is so small what other options do i have to cool down the temperature ? I'm thinking of some CRS so the high temperature is an issue for me. Currently my NANO has some Cherry and Zebra shrimp.

CoolWorks IceProbe Aquarium Chiller seem good enough for NANO .. but for that price i would rather buy a Resun CL280. If i get a CL280 does it mean i have to get a pump to pump water to CL280 ?? How powerful does the pump need to be ? I'm just using a hang-on fliter now.

Maybe i should forget the whole idea afterall :huh:

[juanBeegas]

Maybe i should forget the whole idea afterall :huh:

Maybe... Unless... Is the tank in your room? What are the chances of you leaving your aircon on? Set it to turn off when the room reaches 26° and leave your fan running... :D

[spinex]

Maybe... Unless... Is the tank in your room? What are the chances of you leaving your aircon on? Set it to turn off when the room reaches 26° and leave your fan running... :D

Nope the tank in living room and i think it's more cost effective to run a chillier for a small tank like mine than switching on the aircon ? My current tank is like only 1.3 feet .. at most later upgrade to 2 feet.

[star88]

Chiller in the living room. Do think of the exhaust warm air too. it may be uncomfortable if e chiller is not placed in a proper location.I too thought
of getting an ice probe.But i don't think the result would be good too.
Any bro got any success with ice probe in tropical climate?

[simcb]

CoolWorks IceProbe Aquarium Chiller seem good enough for NANO .. but for that price i would rather buy a Resun CL280. If i get a CL280 does it mean i have to get a pump to pump water to CL280 ?? How powerful does the pump need to be ? I'm just using a hang-on fliter now.

Maybe i should forget the whole idea afterall :huh:

If u planning to get a chiller, you will need a canister filter or pump head.
1. Get the smallest(in power) canister filter available.
2. Use the power of the smallest canister filter as a guide for buying the pump head. Since you are planning to get a pump head, you might as well DIY a canister filter. Just a suggestion lol.

[jojoecute]

Place yr fan face direct above the water level 1cm gap and tilt it a little angle..

U should get a lower temp like 26-27.5 oC.


I have a NANO tank .. about 6 gallon. I'm using fan to bring down the temperature to only 27-29 degree. When my light is on, the temperature hover around 28-29.

Since my tank is so small what other options do i have to cool down the temperature ? I'm thinking of some CRS so the high temperature is an issue for me. Currently my NANO has some Cherry and Zebra shrimp.

CoolWorks IceProbe Aquarium Chiller seem good enough for NANO .. but for that price i would rather buy a Resun CL280. If i get a CL280 does it mean i have to get a pump to pump water to CL280 ?? How powerful does the pump need to be ? I'm just using a hang-on fliter now.

Maybe i should forget the whole idea afterall :huh:

[chamelion]

Adjust the distance between light and water surface.

Also check your pump/filter,sometime poor QC filter generate heat.
My 1.5 foot with a 9cm fan can get constant temp of 26-27.

[silane]

Any bro got any success with ice probe in tropical climate?

Ice probe based on Peltier effect thermoelectric module (TEM) at most can work up to 1 feet standard sized tank. I did a DIY of a mini chiller using TEM, it worked well for nano tank.

[spinex]

Place yr fan face direct above the water level 1cm gap and tilt it a little angle..

U should get a lower temp like 26-27.5 oC, call me 97989948 if u need advise.

Thanks for your help. I guess our room temperature play a big part in the temperature of the water. So no matter how powerful the fan or how many fans we add and how fast the water evapourate it's still relative to the room temperature ? Maybe some experts here can comment on that.

In my situation my light is giving a lot of heat so by cooling the lighting area it may help. I got a planted NANO by the way. When i touch my alumminium casing for my lighting it's quite hot. I changed to a more powerful fan yesterday which blow onto the water and the lighting. I can feel that it cooled down the alumminium casing and hopefully the heat generated due to the lighting too.

My house temperature quite hot not exactly those windy area. A bit like your situation where your tank is placed on an area where it's not facing windows ..etc.

The temperature this morning is 26 degree (due to a rainy morning and no lighting is switch on). Last night i checked the temperatue is 28 degree with lighting on.

I also got 3 new bee aka as bee shrimps in Singapore last night to test our my tank condition. They seem to be doing fine and quite active. 1 of them got very red eyes :D Will monitor them these days and see how is it.

[spinex]

Adjust the distance between light and water surface.

Also check your pump/filter,sometime poor QC filter generate heat.
My 1.5 foot with a 9cm fan can get constant temp of 26-27.

That's good. Mine is also those big AC fan. Guess 27-28 is best i can get while the lighting is on. My light is those standard hook on top of the tank .. distance from lighting to tank .. i estimate 7-8cm only.

[spinex]

Ice probe based on Peltier effect thermoelectric module (TEM) at most can work up to 1 feet standard sized tank. I did a DIY of a mini chiller using TEM, it worked well for nano tank.

How much can your DIY thermoelectric bring the temperature down ? 1 or 2 degree ? I'm actually interested in a thermoelectric DIY. Got any links you could provide to give guidance ? Thanks.

[silane]

Hold on for a while, I will put up an article here.

How far it can goes depends on how small the tank is, the ambient temperature and performance of TEM. Anyway, after reading my article, you will have an idea how far it can go.

[spinex]

Thanks it will be great for my NANO which is only about 23 litre.

[chamelion]

My room temp is around 30-32C.

For the fan to work nicely, you need to top up the water often so that the water level is near to fan for optimum cooling.

My tank evaporate around 2-3cm a day.

[NanoDave]

I use a 8cm ac fan but it't really weird.. sometimes it can cool the tank to 2 degrees lower than room temperature, sometimes only 1 degree even though the setup is exactly the same. Anyone knows why?

[chamelion]

distance between water level and fan. make sure the fan do not suck the hot air from light and blow to water.

[NanoDave]

distance between water level and fan. make sure the fan do not suck the hot air from light and blow to water.

Thanks chamelion. Is it better the closer to the water surface it is? Right now my distance is about 4cm.

[chamelion]

My tank is about 2.5cm from fan to water surface. It's on for 24 hours.

[NanoDave]

Thanks chamelion, I'll try to DIY something to get it closer to the water level. :)

[spinex]

Hold on for a while, I will put up an article here.

How far it can goes depends on how small the tank is, the ambient temperature and performance of TEM. Anyway, after reading my article, you will have an idea how far it can go.

Any idea where to buy suitable TEM in SG ? Seem like many people have trouble finding it in SG.

Read the article here
http://www.petfrd.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11068&page=3&pp=15&highlight=mini+chiller

and some cool looking TEM
http://www.tetech.com/assys/water.shtml

Local SG TEM
http://www.ferrotec.com.sg/category.asp?catid=10

[NanoDave]

I want to buy too.. :)


By the way I found a really nice article we could use
http://electronickits.com/kit/complete/peltier/ck500.pdf

[chamelion]

Hi, the water block they using in water cooled pc is made of copper which is the most poisonuos element for invert like snail and shrimp. FYi snail poison is made out of copper element as well.

Some miss info is that those cooling coil used in chiller use in aquarium is made out of platinum, that's why its so expensive to buy chiller.

aluminium will leech into tank water.

Even std steel also have marin grade that mean for aquarium usage if you use lower grade, the std steel will corrod as well.

HTH

[spinex]

:cool:

Thanks for the info. The point i would like a small cooler like Ice Probe is because of the small size it provide for my NANO.

I'm using a overhanging filter .. so if i were to get a chiller i would also have to get a canister filter. On the other hand, with the price of the Ice Probe i might as well get a chiller.

Maybe for the time being i will forgo the whole idea until i plan to upgrade my tank or whatever.

[NanoDave]

Thanks for the info chamelion. :)

Spinex, how much does an ice probe cost? Is it available in singapore? :)

[silane]

Here is an article on making a Thermoelectric Module based chiller (http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=40).

[NanoDave]

Great article fruitpie!! I think you have a background in electrical stuff? :D

How many days did you take to complete making it?? :)

[silane]

Great article fruitpie!! I think you have a background in electrical stuff? :D

How many days did you take to complete making it?? :)


On and off, I worked on it, it took me over 2 weeks, it is not an easy DIY project.

[NanoDave]

What temperature does it cool the tank to? Is it always to 5 degrees below ambient temperature? Will adding a cooling fan lower temperature further? :)

[silane]

It has no control over the temperature it can cool down to, basically depend on the tank size and ambient temperature. One can use a timer as an open loop control --- a cheap way, or a eletronics thermostats for a close loop control --- precise.

Not too sure if add a fan will help. :)

[Chris Low]

Hi Guys,
I am New but like to help to locate above. Can be found at reefdepot.
Cheer! :)

[spinex]

Thanks for the info chamelion. :)

Spinex, how much does an ice probe cost? Is it available in singapore? :)

Nope .. not available in SG. Order via online is US$100 ... not worth that kind of money in my opinion.

How come there was no China or Taiwan made similar Ice Probe ? Anyone seen it in Taiwan or China ??

Btw great article you have found :)

http://electronickits.com/kit/compl...ltier/ck500.pdf

[spinex]

Here is an article on making a Thermoelectric Module based chiller (http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=40).

Thanks for the article so you are the poster in Petfrd :D

I got some question regarding the probe regarding the anodized cold fin made of aluminium. Will it leech aluminmium to the water in the long term ?

What other suitable material we can use or custom made for the cold fin that's least corrosive in water.

[chamelion]

Thanks for the article so you are the poster in Petfrd :D

I got some question regarding the probe regarding the anodized cold fin made of aluminium. Will it leech aluminmium to the water in the long term ?

What other suitable material we can use or custom made for the cold fin that's least corrosive in water.

Anodized Aluminium will leech (slowly). Try Type 316 or type 304 stainless steel (marine grade).

Whatever material you choose, stay away from copper or you better off without the cooler.

[spinex]

The OATley electronic have a very good one. AUS $37 and come with a insulated tank for cooling water !!! Just what we need ... It will cost less than SG $50 plus postage i suppose. Anyone also interested to order ?

http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/peltier.html

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/peltier/ck500.htm

both have good price... i might get one of those.

Any comments on the above peltier is welcome

[NanoDave]

The OATley electronic have a very good one. AUS $37 and come with a insulated tank for cooling water !!! Just what we need ... It will cost less than SG $50 plus postage i suppose. Anyone also interested to order ?

http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/peltier.html

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/peltier/ck500.htm

both have good price... i might get one of those.

Any comments on the above peltier is welcome

Looks good indeed! I think they don't include the power supply though.. the power supply will add an extra $30-$40 at least, thats if they don't get burn out (heard that happens when anyhow mix match). Just something to consider


Also, one problem I see is how do we clean up the inside of the insulated tank? WIll it fill up with algae and scum? I have an IOS (not the nano IOS) that I have not maintained and at one point it fill up with scum at "saturation point" so that it randomly drops off pieces of brown scum into the water column until I clean it up.

Lastly, is it make of plastic or metal (or plastic with metal contact point)?

Great find nevertheless. Certainly very interesting for aquarists like us.. :)

[spinex]

On the site it's stated as 12V so it's easy to get a normal 12v adaptor for it. We dont need a PSU that cost $20-30 ..anyway i got spare PSU lol A normal adaptor should cost less than $15.

Not much info is avaible. But I think the water tank might be metal insulated by rubber like material.

http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/images/pelt2.jpg

Total cost will add up to about SG $70. That $42 USD .. much much cheaper than a IceProbe at USD $100.

[spinex]

Anodized Aluminium will leech (slowly). Try Type 316 or type 304 stainless steel (marine grade).

Whatever material you choose, stay away from copper or you better off without the cooler.

Thanks for the tips. Will keep that in mind.

[NanoDave]

On the site it's stated as 12V so it's easy to get a normal 12v adaptor for it. We dont need a PSU that cost $20-30 ..anyway i got spare PSU lol A normal adaptor should cost less than $15.

Not much info is avaible. But I think the water tank might be metal insulated by rubber like material.

http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/images/pelt2.jpg

Total cost will add up to about SG $70. That $42 USD .. much much cheaper than a IceProbe at USD $100.

How many ampere does it draw? I can't find on the site..? :) I think a normal 12V $15 acdc sure to burn out.. :P

[silane]

Thanks for the article so you are the poster in Petfrd :D

I got some question regarding the probe regarding the anodized cold fin made of aluminium. Will it leech aluminmium to the water in the long term ?

What other suitable material we can use or custom made for the cold fin that's least corrosive in water.

spinex,

Yes, I posted there also. :)

As far as I am aware, anodized layer prevent corrosion. The power of water can be quite unimaginable, see the way it corrode stone, however, in this case, if it ever corrode, it will take a long long time before it reaches the aluminium center.

[silane]

How many ampere does it draw? I can't find on the site..? :) I think a normal 12V $15 acdc sure to burn out.. :P

I am sure of this also. :D Check the specification of the peltier on current comsumption and make sure you get a power supply that can delivery higher current then that.

You may want to source for high current 12V power supply in Sim Lim Tower (not Square), some time you can get used power supply from industrial machine at good price.

[spinex]

:D
I am sure of this also. :D Check the specification of the peltier on current comsumption and make sure you get a power supply that can delivery higher current then that.

You may want to source for high current 12V power supply in Sim Lim Tower (not Square), some time you can get used power supply from industrial machine at good price.

I got a mini 300W PSU from my old small PC. Can be put to good use. :D

[spinex]

Anyway i just got reply from Oatley. The peltier will draw around 3.5 Amperes. Seem good. I can order one now.

[star88]

The OATley electronic have a very good one. AUS $37 and come with a insulated tank for cooling water !!! Just what we need ... It will cost less than SG $50 plus postage i suppose. Anyone also interested to order ?

http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/peltier.html

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/peltier/ck500.htm

both have good price... i might get one of those.

Any comments on the above peltier is welcome
Interested in getting one to try.
can reach me at 97680815 :)

[spinex]

I already ordered 1. Maybe you guys would like to wait till i get my unit and see how before ordering

[NanoDave]

Here is an article on making a Thermoelectric Module based chiller (http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=40).

fruitpie, do you remember where you got the Thermoelectric Module from? I could only find one model in a shop that have them in SLT and it does not have any specification such as voltage current or if it is "non Power Generation type" or not.. :embarasse From your article you used a 127W 14A TEM and it cooled to about 20 degrees celcius below ambient temp(30-10.2), so can I use a 60W 7A one if I want to cool only to 10 degrees below ambient?

Apart from that shop I also ran into someone who wants to sell me a TEM that is 12V 3A (36W) Is that really weak and utterly useless? or would it cool to around 5 degrees below ambient?

2nd, is the Heatsink compound same as thermapaste? I found a cheapo one in SLT at $1 a syringe will that do? Or have the get the $15 ones? Does it work like adhesive or do I need to secure with something else? :)

[NanoDave]

I already ordered 1. Maybe you guys would like to wait till i get my unit and see how before ordering

Hope you get yours soon! How long will shipping take? 1.5 weeks? :)

[spinex]

My peltier device is here ! But seem like no information about it at all .. hence i have emailed to the online store tech support to gather more information about operating it.

Below is part of my question to them

But seem like there is not much information regarding
the voltage or ampheres needed by the peltier chip or
any simple documentation on how to operate the device.

Can you provide me some specification (voltage and
amps ..etc) about the peltier chip used so i can get a
compatible power adaptor for it ?

I see there's a black and red cable coming out from
the insulator tank. What purpose does it serve ? A
small motor inside to pump water out ?

On the insulator tank it's stated Item No: MKL880-12A.
DC 13V, 0.8L/H (litre/hour i suppose) and 65W+/-5.
What is that refering to ? The peltier chip ?

Last question is there are a total of 3 outlet from
the insulator tank (2 on one side and 1 at the other
end) which are not labelled. Can you tell me their
purpose ? I suppose it's for water input and output.

I have also taken some photos of the device using my phone camera. Uploaded in my gallery. You can take a look.

[NanoDave]

I can't find your user gallery.. can you put a direct link to it? cos I'm really excited to see those photos! :)

Hope you don't mind me trying to help with your questions you asked them below..


Can you provide me some specification (voltage and
amps ..etc) about the peltier chip used so i can get a
compatible power adaptor for it ?

I think it is those stated on the insulator tank since there are no other electrical components..
ie 13V, 4.61A-5.28A (current =watt divide by voltage)

0.8L/H is probably the ideal flow of water through the tank for effective cooling.


I see there's a black and red cable coming out from
the insulator tank. What purpose does it serve ? A
small motor inside to pump water out ?

The red and black cables is probably from the peltier, so it should probably be connected to power supply. There is probably no pump inside but when you pump water in the pressure water is pushed out, creating a flow..

Last question is there are a total of 3 outlet from
the insulator tank (2 on one side and 1 at the other
end) which are not labelled. Can you tell me their
purpose ? I suppose it's for water input and output.

I think the extra one may be for you to drain the water from the insulator tank if it is near the bottom.

[spinex]

The other red/black cable from the tank is the thermistor ..

http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/peltier.html ...i should have bought the 240V-12V POWER SUPPLY when i purchase the peltier didnt take notice of it. On the wiring diagram http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/Notes/pelt2.zip then i see it's made for the my Peltier device. :(

From the online store it's stated

240V-12V POWER SUPPLY: Suitable for use with PELT2. This power supply can be connected to the thermistor (located inside the tank) in order to control the temperature

I knew that without the thermistor connected the Peltier device will still work. But then will it get too cold ? Need to experience with my Peltier device.

I was told previously that the peltier need 12V and 3.5amp .. that make it 42watts. Voltage x Amp/Current = watts. I believe this is a 50W peltier.

I forgot to add that on the lable on the insulator tank it's also stated "10-38°C" i suppose that's 10-38 degree celcius. For the thermistor range i believe.

Btw i have uploaded the photo .. maybe waiting for moderator to approve it ? Last time i post my Nano tank photo also took a quite before it was online.

I could bring this device to the gathering to let all of you take a look if you are interested.

[NanoDave]

The other red/black cable from the tank is the thermistor ..

http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/peltier.html ...i should have bought the 240V-12V POWER SUPPLY when i purchase the peltier didnt take notice of it. On the wiring diagram http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/Notes/pelt2.zip then i see it's made for the my Peltier device. :(

From the online store it's stated

240V-12V POWER SUPPLY: Suitable for use with PELT2. This power supply can be connected to the thermistor (located inside the tank) in order to control the temperature

I knew that without the thermistor connected the Peltier device will still work. But then will it get too cold ? Need to experience with my Peltier device.

I was told previously that the peltier need 12V and 3.5amp .. that make it 42watts. Voltage x Amp/Current = watts. I believe this is a 50W peltier.

I forgot to add that on the lable on the insulator tank it's also stated "10-38°C" i suppose that's 10-38 degree celcius. For the thermistor range i believe.

Btw i have uploaded the photo .. maybe waiting for moderator to approve it ? Last time i post my Nano tank photo also took a quite before it was online.

If could bring this device to the gathering to let all of you take a look if you are interested.

Yea I really want to see it!! Is it bulky? I think photo will be fine if its not easy to transport.. thanks anyway! :)

A thermistor is a temperature controller? I think it is a great deal that you actually got a temperature controller with your peltier at that price! I think it is quite wasted if you don't make use of it if it is already there :p

How much was your postage cost by the way? is it AUD$12? Did you have to pay additional taxes? :)

[spinex]

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=464

Found my user gallery .. strange how come my gallery is not tagged with my username.

My peltier device photo is there.

Btw anyone has any idea how does the thermistor work to control temperature ??

[spinex]

Jojoe,

Is that how u have multiple fan tapping from the same adaptor ??

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/4/6/4/peltierpower.jpg

[spinex]

Minor update : Connect up the peltier device with a PC power supply (150W with 12V and 3.2A)

The requirement for my Peltier is suppose to be 12V, 3.5A. The big fan is 12V, 0.18A. So the power supply is slighly under powered.

Sealed up the outlet of the peltier tank and fill it with water suppose to be a 1 litre tank. Maybe is 800-900ml of water only.

Water is 29 degree before i pour into the peltier tank. Within 10 mins temperature dropped to 25 degree. After 20 mins it's 20 degree .. after more than 1 hour i checked it's 9-10 degree and it's kinda constant after that.

Note that the experiment is based on 800-900ml of water in the tank. Need to get a pump and test 20-30 litre of water to find out the cooling.

Overall, i'm pretty impressed by the cooling it can achieve. My dream of having a small 'chiller' for my NANO is round the corner.

[NanoDave]

Nice cooling!! How did you arrive at 150W? Doesn't 12V and 3.2A use less than 40W?

How do you plan to make the temperature constant at lets say 24 degrees?

:)

[silane]

Came across this Thermostat Kit:
http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/MK138
can use used to on/off peltier base on preset temperature.

http://store.qkits.com/hires/mk138.jpg

[NanoDave]

Came across this Thermostat Kit:
http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/MK138
can use used to on/off peltier base on preset temperature.

http://store.qkits.com/hires/mk138.jpg

nice find!! :sunny: I think that is exactly what I need!!


But I have no idea how to connect it.. :stars:

[silane]

You see the row of connector on the right? :) :bulb:

[spinex]

using a thermostat to on and off the peltier device will damage it easily.

I'm planning to see how's the cooling effect then maybe use timer to time control on off the peltier .. maybe something like from morning 9am-1am the peltier will run since at night it will be cooler than day time and afternoon.

[spinex]

Nice cooling!! How did you arrive at 150W? Doesn't 12V and 3.2A use less than 40W?

How do you plan to make the temperature constant at lets say 24 degrees?

:)

lol i did not arrive at 150W but i just happen to find a 150w old PSU from my office.

[NanoDave]

You see the row of connector on the right? :) :bulb:

hmm.. lets see... 2 wires to thermostat power, 2 wires to peltier's power? which part goes into the water to measure temperature? :p

[NanoDave]

using a thermostat to on and off the peltier device will damage it easily.

I'm planning to see how's the cooling effect then maybe use timer to time control on off the peltier .. maybe something like from morning 9am-1am the peltier will run since at night it will be cooler than day time and afternoon.

But your peltier cools to 10 degrees in one hour, wouldn't it be too low for shrimps? :)

[NanoDave]

lol i did not arrive at 150W but i just happen to find a 150w old PSU from my office.

I see.. good to know it doesn't eat up so much power.. :)



By the way, for anyone who knows,

If I use an unregulated power supply of 12V, 6 amp, when I connect the a 12V 3 amp peltier to it,

will the power consumption be 6 amp or 3amp(of peltier) ?

or will it change the voltage and make it become 24V 3 amp?

or will it force 6amp onto the peltier and burn it up?

My extension socket says (max load=5A), can I use it?

:huh: help!! :huh:

[silane]

Your 3A rated peltier will just draw 3A of current, even if it is connect to a power supply that is capable of supply higher current.

Your extension socket is rated in 240Vac, so it can take up to 1200W, it is capable of handling what you peltier is drawing 36W.

[spinex]

Decide to get Eheim 1046 inline pump to draw water out from my NANO and into the peltier tank .. damage is $63 for a Eheim ..

Too bad in SG they dont have the smallest inline pump Eheim 1005

NanoDave,
Yes Fruitie explanation of the power consumption is correct after asking from friends doing electrical. That's why i dont mind my PSU is 150W

10 degree in 1 hr. But you must remember i'm using a 800ml water in the peltier reservoir to simulate the test as i dont have a pump yet. What i'm thinking is, if this is in real tank with maybe 20-30l of water, the temperature drop would be -5 degree off the normal water temperature. Dont forget tank water is open to the environment and thus will always absorb heat. Like what Fruitie has experience for his own DIY peltier chiller he also mentioned that a 4-5 degree cooling is realistic for NANO tank.

That's why i need to get a pump and test what's the cooling like for 10 hrs operation. Need pratical test to supplement my own theory.

[spinex]

Finally the setup is done. Tried to experience with a pail of water guess around 10 litre. But then the bottom outlet of the peltier tank is dripping water. The rest of the setup is good with no water leakage and the Eheim is working as i expected.

Just sealed up the peltier tank outlet with silicone. Previously i just used scotch tape to do simple test. Have to wait 2 days for it to completely dry then i will do a live run on my NANO tank.

Below is a pic of my setup. sorry for lousy photo because i dont have a digicam. Photo is taken using my mobile phone.

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/4/6/4/peltier_setup1.jpg

[NanoDave]

fruitpie & spinex, thanks a lot bros, really set my mind at ease over the power consumption and connection.. :)

At my side, I've just finished making the "hang-on-reservoir". Basically it will be hung on the side of the tank and it will receive water pumped into it via a pvc tube; the water then flows pass a heatsink connected to peltier before exiting out into the ios compartment where it will go back to the tank after filtration.

Hopefully I will finish everything before this weekend is over! :)

[NanoDave]

This is the hang-on-reservoir I made...

The black part is where I will connect the tube to feed water in,

The L shape connector is the water out. It comes out by gravity and no using water pressure, therefore I don't have to have a water-tight top. (I will still make an openable cover though).This is so I can do maintainance such as when scum build up inside..

The vertical piece inside the reservoir separates the water coming in from the water coming out so there is smooth channeling.

The horizontal piece is for hanging onto the side of the tank.

I've put more lots of extra silicon and acrylic reinforcements than necessary for peace of mind since it is going to be hanging outside the tank. :)

Just finished a leak test and it has passed! :)


http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/5/0/5/peltier0001a.jpg

[NanoDave]

This is how it hangs on the side of the tank (I've just hang it on the front of the tank for this photo. When I finished it will be on the side just above the IOS)

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/5/0/5/peltier0005a.jpg

[silane]

Finally the setup is done. Tried to experience with a pail of water guess around 10 litre. But then the bottom outlet of the peltier tank is dripping water. The rest of the setup is good with no water leakage and the Eheim is working as i expected.



What is the physical size of the peltier? Can a 50mmx50mm peltier fit into the box?


using a thermostat to on and off the peltier device will damage it easily.




hmmm... can add in a capacitor with calculator value after studying the op-amps resistors value (which is acting as a compartor now) to form an integrator, that will smooth out any fast on/off. It is getting more complicated. :D

[silane]

hmm.. lets see... 2 wires to thermostat power, 2 wires to peltier's power? which part goes into the water to measure temperature? :p

The thermistor (the blue little thing) has to goes into water, you got to extend it by wire and seal them. Yeah, 2 wires to peltier, 2 wire from powersupply. Or may one wire to each if they have a common ground.



This is how it hangs on the side of the tank (I've just hang it on the front of the tank for this photo. When I finished it will be on the side just above the IOS)

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/5/0/5/peltier0005a.jpg


Nice design. Something coming out of the cold plate, what is that?

[spinex]

What is the physical size of the peltier? Can a 50mmx50mm peltier fit into the box?




hmmm... can add in a capacitor with calculator value after studying the op-amps resistors value (which is acting as a compartor now) to form an integrator, that will smooth out any fast on/off. It is getting more complicated. :D

I guess the size of the peltier is 40mm x 40mm. fixing into into the box should be no problem because the tank is like 16cm x 12cm x 12cm roughly. The peltier tank is very well insulated inside .. i'm guess there's styrofoam as insulation inside because even the water inside the tanks is chilled to 10 degree i do not see any condensation on the tank surface nor feel the tank being cold.

Seem like you are a electrical guy ? From what i read thermostat and thermistor are 2 different thing. Thermstat is used to on/off based on temperature. While thermistor try to control the temperature via current and resistant. Wikipedia has a good explanation :

Thermistor Explained (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermistor)

The peltier device i got come with a Thermistor and on the peltier device tank there's a specification which state 10-38 degree celcius which i assume is refering to the temperature control the thermistor will maintain ? So far i just leave the thermistor connection alone doubt it will be useful for our application but it would be good to know exactly what's the usage.

[silane]

I am jack of all trade, master of none. :D

A thermistor is a sensor which resistance varies according to temperature.

Good old days thermstat are maing use of expansion of 2 different metal, contact or break. Electronics thermostat make use as thermistor as a transducer plus electronics circuit, simplest form will be a comparator make out of op-amps and resistors to make comparation of the preset resistance provided by a varying resistor and the resistance of the thermistor to switch a relay on and off. So you are right, a thermistor comes with peltier can't do anything alone.

The 10 to 38C is the range which the thermistor can operator.




Seem like you are a electrical guy ? From what i read thermostat and thermistor are 2 different thing. Thermstat is used to on/off based on temperature. While thermistor try to control the temperature via current and resistant. Wikipedia has a good explanation :

Thermistor Explained (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermistor)

The peltier device i got come with a Thermistor and on the peltier device tank there's a specification which state 10-38 degree celcius which i assume is refering to the temperature control the thermistor will maintain ? So far i just leave the thermistor connection alone doubt it will be useful for our application but it would be good to know exactly what's the usage.

[Robert]

Hi,
I didn't follow your whole conversation and also don't understand all of it without further information.
But I have a suggestion. You guys try to build a extra box for the peltier and a then use a pump to conect it with the tank. Wouldn't it be possible to build it directly into a hang on the top filter like a Aquaclear? These filters are pretty cheap for you and in the larger ones should be enough space. Or why don't you connect the peltier box with an external filter instead of installing a extra pump?

regards
Robert

[NanoDave]

The thermistor (the blue little thing) has to goes into water, you got to extend it by wire and seal them. Yeah, 2 wires to peltier, 2 wire from powersupply. Or may one wire to each if they have a common ground.

Sounds complicated to me.. :p




Nice design. Something coming out of the cold plate, what is that?
That's another heatsink to increase surface area.. :)

Now a problem I got is how do I know whether I am cooling the hot side enough? If not, will the peltier overheat and burn out? :x

[NanoDave]

Hi,
I didn't follow your whole conversation and also don't understand all of it without further information.
But I have a suggestion. You guys try to build a extra box for the peltier and a then use a pump to conect it with the tank. Wouldn't it be possible to build it directly into a hang on the top filter like a Aquaclear? These filters are pretty cheap for you and in the larger ones should be enough space. Or why don't you connect the peltier box with an external filter instead of installing a extra pump?

regards
Robert

In my case, I already have a pump that is pumping water to the internal sump, so if I use a hang on filter I will still have to mod the outlet so that the outflow goes to the sump. Also, I have no place to put the hang on filter except at the back where the water level is lower than the main tank, so the hang on filter may not be powerful enough to draw the water up. Secondly, in my present system everything can be changed individually. If the pump fails one day, all I have to do is to get a new pump and replace it. If the pump of a hang on filter fails, then I will have to change the whole hang-on filter and take out the peltier from the old one and fix it onto the new hang-on all over again.. :)

[spinex]

Hi,
I didn't follow your whole conversation and also don't understand all of it without further information.
But I have a suggestion. You guys try to build a extra box for the peltier and a then use a pump to conect it with the tank. Wouldn't it be possible to build it directly into a hang on the top filter like a Aquaclear? These filters are pretty cheap for you and in the larger ones should be enough space. Or why don't you connect the peltier box with an external filter instead of installing a extra pump?

regards
Robert

Yup your suggestion is good and i thought about it too. But the thing is my peltier come with the reservoir tank and mine is a nano tank with just a small hangon filter which is too small to install the cold plate inside. Plus i'm lazy to dismantle the peltier device that i purchase unless it's necessary. I wanna do as little or simple DIY as possible :p

[spinex]

So need something else to work with the thermistor so that we can set the temperaure between 10-38 degree ? Is that the reason the power supply by the online shop i buy have a temperature sensor meaning we can set a fix temperature for the thermistor to operator ? Below is the wiring diagram for their power supply which i should have bought it ...

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/4/6/4/pelt2.gif


I am jack of all trade, master of none. :D

A thermistor is a sensor which resistance varies according to temperature.

Good old days thermstat are maing use of expansion of 2 different metal, contact or break. Electronics thermostat make use as thermistor as a transducer plus electronics circuit, simplest form will be a comparator make out of op-amps and resistors to make comparation of the preset resistance provided by a varying resistor and the resistance of the thermistor to switch a relay on and off. So you are right, a thermistor comes with peltier can't do anything alone.

The 10 to 38C is the range which the thermistor can operator.

[silane]

Now a problem I got is how do I know whether I am cooling the hot side enough? If not, will the peltier overheat and burn out? :x

You just won't have the cooling effect if you do not cool the hot side sufficiently. Not too sure for long period of time, but for short period, it is ok with the insufficient cooling.

[silane]

So need something else to work with the thermistor so that we can set the temperaure between 10-38 degree ? Is that the reason the power supply by the online shop i buy have a temperature sensor meaning we can set a fix temperature for the thermistor to operator ? Below is the wiring diagram for their power supply which i should have bought it ...

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/4/6/4/pelt2.gif


Can't really tell just from the component layout. To make the thermistor work, you will be a varible resister for temperature perset which I don't see it on the layout or it does not show.

[NanoDave]

You just won't have the cooling effect if you do not cool the hot side sufficiently. Not too sure for long period of time, but for short period, it is ok with the insufficient cooling.

Thanks again, fruitpie. You have been a great help in this project! :drummer:

[spinex]

Trial run my Peltier device with a tub of water estimate it's around ..8-10 litre ? Those standard water paint you got at home.

Result is not very impressive. Initial temperature is 29 degree and i keep it on through the night and it got to 26.5-27 degree range :( . Since my peltier is underpowered (running at 36W) i might get another PSU (power supply unit) to let it run at the max 45W it's capable of but then i doubt it will be much of a difference (not sure though)

Fruitie,
By the way where did you purchase the 127W peltier for your DIY project ? I might have to get that. You achieve 10 degree using that on a 1 feet tank ?

If i got a PSU which is 400w and 14Amp it only mean the peltier will be running at full capacity right ?

NanoDave,
Care to share where you get your peltier ? How many watt ?

[NanoDave]

Mine is only 36W, from sim lim tower. I'm not sure of its effectiveness yet as I have not connected everything yet... :)

[spinex]

Mine is only 36W, from sim lim tower. I'm not sure of its effectiveness yet as I have not connected everything yet... :)

Do they have 100w ? Can share which shop you got it so as to save me the trouble looking for it ? How much did you paid for it ?

36W is exactly what i'm running on my trial run on 8-9 litre of water.... Not very effective. 2 degree off ambient temperature. So i reckon we need a 100w peltier unit at least. Fruite DIY peltier is 127w :shocked:

Anyway i have email http://www.ferrotec.com.sg to ask whether do they sell a unit of their peltier and their recommendation to cool water of 20-30 litre from 29 degree to 24-25 degree.

Maybe Fruitie can give us direction on where he got his 127W peltier. I remember he mention he got it online for $20 ?

Seem like Ebay US got those peltier :

320w peltier (http://cgi.ebay.com/Awesome-320-Watt-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler_W0QQitemZ7550108328QQcategoryZ4660QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem)
170w peltier (http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-50mm-170-Watt-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler_W0QQitemZ7551517318QQcategoryZ4660QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem)
110w peltier (http://cgi.ebay.com/Powerful-110-Watt-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler_W0QQitemZ7550107892QQcategoryZ4660QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem)

All sold by the same guy and seem like he got many different watts peltier.

NanoDave : You interested ? Maybe you can call me at 9273 0873 we'll talk a bit over the DIY chiller. A 170W peltier should serve us well i estimate. A 320w is too much and we need to take care of the heat sink too.

[xtrekker]

Hi guy i have been following this interesting. There is a TEC supplier in thailand the price are pretty reasonable. check out this link.

http://www.thermoelectricsupplier.com/kits.htm

Anyone interested ? maybe we can order together to share the shipping cost.

cheers
sam

[xtrekker]

Mine is only 36W, from sim lim tower. I'm not sure of its effectiveness yet as I have not connected everything yet... :)

I bought a 40W TEC from Simlim last sat its pretty effective. when stand alone there are frost forming on the cold plate.

can anyone tell me how to upload the pics ?

[spinex]

I bought a 40W TEC from Simlim last sat its pretty effective. when stand alone there are frost forming on the cold plate.

can anyone tell me how to upload the pics ?

Having frost forming doesn't mean it's capable of cooling 20 to 30 litre of water by 4 to 5 degree :(

Do Sim Lim have 100W and above peltier ? By the way i'm also interested in the Thailand peltier. I dont mind sharing the cost if it's cheap.

To upload the photo you can upload it under "Gallery" under your own name.

[NanoDave]

Do they have 100w ? Can share which shop you got it so as to save me the trouble looking for it ? How much did you paid for it ?

36W is exactly what i'm running on my trial run on 8-9 litre of water.... Not very effective. 2 degree off ambient temperature. So i reckon we need a 100w peltier unit at least. Fruite DIY peltier is 127w :shocked:

Anyway i have email http://www.ferrotec.com.sg to ask whether do they sell a unit of their peltier and their recommendation to cool water of 20-30 litre from 29 degree to 24-25 degree.

Maybe Fruitie can give us direction on where he got his 127W peltier. I remember he mention he got it online for $20 ?

Seem like Ebay US got those peltier :

320w peltier (http://cgi.ebay.com/Awesome-320-Watt-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler_W0QQitemZ7550108328QQcategoryZ4660QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem)
170w peltier (http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-50mm-170-Watt-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler_W0QQitemZ7551517318QQcategoryZ4660QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem)
110w peltier (http://cgi.ebay.com/Powerful-110-Watt-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler_W0QQitemZ7550107892QQcategoryZ4660QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem)

All sold by the same guy and seem like he got many different watts peltier.

NanoDave : You interested ? Maybe you can call me at 9273 0873 we'll talk a bit over the DIY chiller. A 170W peltier should serve us well i estimate. A 320w is too much and we need to take care of the heat sink too.

I can't remember the name but the shop where I bought mine is in the corner of the uppermost floor of sim Lim Tower. I'm very sure they have no other peltiers than the one I bought, that is why I bought the one I bought. I didn't pay a lot of it, I'm quite sure it cost less than 20 dollars. I can't remember exactly because I also bought some other things like a soldering kit, wires, heatsink, flux etc. By the way the peltier I bought does not come with wires, just two short metals protruding out from the "square" where you have to solder wires to..

2 degree off ambient temperature sounds like what a fan can do.. :(

have you tried running the peltier plus a cooling fan and see what difference it makes?

Just a thought: If we cannot find more powerful ones maybe we can run several peltiers at the same time, that should work too..

[NanoDave]

I bought a 40W TEC from Simlim last sat its pretty effective. when stand alone there are frost forming on the cold plate.

can anyone tell me how to upload the pics ?

Do you mean Sim Lim Square or Sim Lim Tower? Which shop did you get it from? :)

[spinex]

Nope didnt try with fan. Because my aim is to do with everyday 1.5 litre of water topup to my NANO.

Now i aim to get a minimium 100w peltier for testing. Or .. i will cascade the peltier together to achieve more power hence more cooling effect.

I have already email a local company doing Peltier .. they seem quite helpful and will recommend a suitable peltier based on my requirement which i have already given them. Will update when i got more replies from them.

27 degree seem like much better than what my tank can manage with fan (28 degree usually). But then ..my trial is on 8 litre of water only. I dont have a electronic thermometer because they seem quite inaccurate. ??

Meanwhile tonight i will get the PSU with 400W and 15Amp so as to blast up the full capacity of my peltier .. thinking of changing the 90mm fan running at 12V, 0.18amp which i think it's a bit too slow to dissipate the heat from the heatsink.


I can't remember the name but the shop where I bought mine is in the corner of the uppermost floor of sim Lim Tower. I'm very sure they have no other peltiers than the one I bought, that is why I bought the one I bought. I didn't pay a lot of it, I'm quite sure it cost less than 20 dollars. I can't remember exactly because I also bought some other things like a soldering kit, wires, heatsink, flux etc. By the way the peltier I bought does not come with wires, just two short metals protruding out from the "square" where you have to solder wires to..

2 degree off ambient temperature sounds like what a fan can do.. :(

have you tried running the peltier plus a cooling fan and see what difference it makes?

[NanoDave]

Nope didnt try with fan. Because my aim is to do with everyday 1.5 litre of water topup with my NANO.

Now i aim to get a 100w minimium peltier for testing. Or .. i will cascade the peltier together to achieve more power hence more cooling effect.

I have already email a local company doing Peltier .. they seem quite helpful and will recommend a suitable peltier based on my requirement which i have already given them. Will update when i got more replies from them.

Does cascading means running several peltiers together? :)

Hope you'll get replies from the local company soon! I'll be interested in their recommendation too! :)

[spinex]

yes cascading mean stacking them up on top of another.

If not worse come to worse order from Ebay. That fellow quite reputable in selling Peltier online and his price is good. Less than $20 sgd for a 175W peltier. Hope to get someone to share so we can share the shipping cost.

[NanoDave]

yes cascading mean stacking them up on top of another.

If not worse come to worse order from Ebay. That fellow quite reputable in selling Peltier online and his price is good. Less than $20 sgd for a 175W peltier. Hope to get someone to share so we can share the shipping cost.

:undecided I didn't know they can be stacked like that... otherwise I would have bought at least one more when I bought mine :undecided

Yes $20sgd for a 175W sounds very reasonable.. just the hassle of ordering and waiting for it to arrive. Most international ebayers only accept payment using paypal.. do you have a paypal account? :)

[spinex]

I will apply for Paypal if necessary. If not we also can get from Oatelectronic the online shop which i got my peltier device.

They got a "8.0A / 15V PELTIER DEVICE" chip for aussie $16 (sgd roughly $20) which translate to 120Watt. I got lobang for shipping will take only 3 days from the day i order.

Transport cost pay me $7 sgd will do. Maybe now we can think of their PSU which cost only aus$12.

I dont think stacking 2 x 35 watts helps much in our situation.. and at $20 a piece we can get a better deal from Oatlyelectronic. sgd $27 for 120watts 3 days waiting only...

Now i waiting for the local company to get back to me and see what their recommendation.

Fruitie should be able to provide some light on the cooling of his 137w peltier since he tried it before but no mention of how fast and what's the temperature.

[NanoDave]

What kind of shipping lobang is it? You have friends there who can pick it up and put it on a next direct flight to singapore? Care to share? :)

I think getting the psu will definitely add to the cost substantially since it is so heavy... :p

As for the wattage of peltier I think we should get one that cools just enough and not too much, so we don't have to worry about a thermostat. :)

[spinex]

What kind of shipping lobang is it? You have friends there who can pick it up and put it on a next direct flight to singapore? Care to share? :)

I think getting the psu will definitely add to the cost substantially since it is so heavy... :p

As for the wattage of peltier I think we should get one that cools just enough and not too much, so we don't have to worry about a thermostat. :)

Dont think it will cost much. $8 at most for u for transport :D need to find out more how many Voltage is this PSU . 24V max ?? If 12V i'm better off using my PC PSU.

With the 120W + my current 45W stacked = 165w lol

[NanoDave]

Dont think it will cost much. $8 at most for u for transport :D need to find out more how many Voltage is this PSU . 24V max ?? If 12V i'm better off using my PC PSU.

With the 120W + my current 45W stacked = 165w lol

How come $8 can arrive in 3 days? lol tell me okie lol ...

[spinex]

How come $8 can arrive in 3 days? lol tell me okie lol ...

Got friend work in frieght company and for Aus got good rates. Anyway $8 for you i on my side also paying some so it's sharing cost else where got so cheap.

[NanoDave]

Got friend work in frieght company and for Aus got good rates. Anyway $8 for you i on my side also paying some so it's sharing cost else where got so cheap.

I see... if next time I need to buy things from overseas can ask your friend for shipping too? :D

So how? are you free tonight kopi? :)

[xtrekker]

Do you mean Sim Lim Square or Sim Lim Tower? Which shop did you get it from? :)

Got it from sim lim tower from the basement level . there is a shop that specialised in temperature sensing equipment. Got it at $25 consider cheap if you compare it with RS component which cost at least $50++

[silane]

This is the peltier I got:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-50mm-170-Watt-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler_W0QQitemZ7551517318QQcategoryZ4660QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

It is specified at 170W at 15W. I used current meter to measure its comsuption at 12V and I derived that at 12V it was 127W.


A note on using PC PSU as power supply, the wattage rating of a power supply represent the total wattage of all the available voltage trails, so if you are using 12V, you have to take a look at the sticker with rating for 12 voltage for it maximum current, just to make sure you dont over load the PSU with a high comsumption peltier.

[spinex]

This is the peltier I got:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-50mm-170-Watt-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler_W0QQitemZ7551517318QQcategoryZ4660QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

It is specified at 170W at 15W. I used current meter to measure its comsuption at 12V and I derived that at 12V it was 127W.

A note on using PC PSU as power supply, the wattage rating of a power supply represent the total wattage of all the available voltage trails, so if you are using 12V, you have to take a look at the sticker with rating for 12 voltage for it maximum current, just to make sure you dont over load the PSU with a high comsumption peltier.

Thanks for link. Exactly the same seller whom i posted earlier to NanoDave about an Ebay seller. I got a 400w 17amp psu laying around that would be a good standby

I'm interested in knowing did your 127W peltier manage to cool your NANO test tank to 10 degree ? What capacity is your nano tank for test ?

[silane]

I'm interested in knowing did your 127W peltier manage to cool your NANO test tank to 10 degree ? What capacity is your nano tank for test ?

10C obtained was testing with empty reservior -- chilled air. With a slightly less than 1 feet tank, it was able to go down to 24C.

[NanoDave]

Peltier finally deployed!! :shocked:


Side view
http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/5/0/5/peltier0004a.jpg

Top view
http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/5/0/5/peltier0010a.jpg


Insulated 2 sides of the tank and reservoir so the hot air from heatsink doesn't not cause warming effect...

Only reduced 2.5 degrees below ambience after 3 hours...

to say I am disappointed at the performance is an understatement..

.... :dozey: <-- Sian Ji Bua ...

:bigcry:




(On hindsight, well at least I learnt a few new things in this project... )

[spinex]

NanoDave,

2.5 degree off ambient is already well done ! What's the capacity of your tank ? While testing with 8 litre of water i also got 2-2.5 degree off ambient temperature even i used a more powerful PSU to blast the peltier at full capacity suppose to be 45w peltier unit for mine.

So how to move on now ? Ebay ? :D need to get our hands on the monster 175w peltier to try

[silane]

Lowered by 2.5C is quite a an achievement, I would say, every degree drop in temperature counts for us in hot country. How much can it goes down if it keep it running? Commerical chiller does not cool water immediately, it take a number of hours to lower to 25C.

There is a big monster peltier in Ebay, 60mmx60mm, 320W! But getting a PC PSU for such high current comsumption maybe a problem. And heat disspation is also another issue.

[NanoDave]

NanoDave,

2.5 degree off ambient is already well done ! What's the capacity of your tank ? While testing with 8 litre of water i also got 2-2.5 degree off ambient temperature even i used a more powerful PSU to blast the peltier at full capacity suppose to be 45w peltier unit for mine.

So how to move on now ? Ebay ? :D need to get our hands on the monster 175w peltier to try

I was actually hoping for 5 deg.. :embarasse

I'm not sure about the capacity of the tank but I think it is about 7 litres excluding water in the ios compartment..

If we are getting new peltier, Is 175W the optima wattage? Because if too cold then we are going to have the temperature controlling problem..

Will we be able to cool the hot side effectively? One thing I noticed from my 36W is that the heatsink gets very hot.. so hot that if I touch it with my finger I cannot leave it there for more than 1 or 2 seconds is that the same with your case?

Are you going to stack the new peltier (its called cascade?) on top of your old peltier or are you going to take it out and replace? If stacked it will make it 200W+? Is there any disadvantages of stacking it? Or is it more efficient to open another 'hole' beside it and put in another individual peltier and heatsink?

I think this time we should research properly before just jump in.. :p

[NanoDave]

Lowered by 2.5C is quite a an achievement, I would say, every degree drop in temperature counts for us in hot country. How much can it goes down if it keep it running? Commerical chiller does not cool water immediately, it take a number of hours to lower to 25C.

There is a big monster peltier in Ebay, 60mmx60mm, 320W! But getting a PC PSU for such high current comsumption maybe a problem. And heat disspation is also another issue.

If I keep it running it also stays at 2.5 degrees below ambient (27.5 in 30 deg ambient) and doesn't do down any further. You can say that throughout the time I was staring at the digital thermometer dropping until it levels off, so I'm pretty sure the temperature will not go down further.. :undecided

I'm feeling better now.. yesterday I was quite disappointed I almost threw the whole unit down the rubbish chute lol

[spinex]

Lowered by 2.5C is quite a an achievement, I would say, every degree drop in temperature counts for us in hot country. How much can it goes down if it keep it running? Commerical chiller does not cool water immediately, it take a number of hours to lower to 25C.

There is a big monster peltier in Ebay, 60mmx60mm, 320W! But getting a PC PSU for such high current comsumption maybe a problem. And heat disspation is also another issue.

My 400W psu can more than handle it lol and it help i got a 120mm x 120mm heatsink .. just need to up the 90mm fan attached to it since it's not very powerful .. hence i was thinking of the 175w.

Your test environment is 24 degree for a slightly less than 1 feet tank using a 125w peltier. If i up till 175w max .. and my tank is sightly less than 1.5 feet .. maybe the best i could get is 25-26 degree. My assumption is that. Tank volume increase by nearly 50% but from 125-175w it's only roughly 30% increase in peltier power .. in that case i need a 320w peltier if i want to get 25 degree and below.

I was think i could stack up my current 45w peltier with 175w to give it 220w but not sure will it work the way i wanted. To be on the safe size a 320w peltier look good. I just need to maybe power the peltier to 250w and it should be fine for tank of my size.

[NanoDave]

My 400W psu can more than handle it lol and it help i got a 120mm x 120mm heatsink .. just need to up the 90mm fan attached to it since it's not very powerful ..

Im starting to think maybe my heatsink is too small.. do you think? It is only 50mmx50mm, which is the same size as the fan cooling it... :p

[spinex]

I was actually hoping for 5 deg.. :embarasse

I'm not sure about the capacity of the tank but I think it is about 7 litres excluding water in the ios compartment..

If we are getting new peltier, Is 175W the optima wattage? Because if too cold then we are going to have the temperature controlling problem..

Will we be able to cool the hot side effectively? One thing I noticed from my 36W is that the heatsink gets very hot.. so hot that if I touch it with my finger I cannot leave it there for more than 1 or 2 seconds is that the same with your case?

Are you going to stack the new peltier (its called cascade?) on top of your old peltier or are you going to take it out and replace? If stacked it will make it 200W+? Is there any disadvantages of stacking it? Or is it more efficient to open another 'hole' beside it and put in another individual peltier and heatsink?

I think this time we should research properly before just jump in.. :p

My heatsink is warm to the touch :D i can touch it with no problem even after running for 8 hrs non stop. My 90mm fan is a bit crap not fast enough but slow = no noise which is also good. But i think a 175w onto the same heatsink will be hot and a 320w ....... That's why maybe i will change to a 120mm powerful fan. Anyway i got the Profantec AC fan which is very powerful.. that can be modified and put to use.

I do not know the efficiency of stacking yet but it suppose to help. Of course it's going to be more efficient if you open another 'hole' and simply add another peltier in. Remember the hot side of your peltier/heatsink also have an effect on your peltier cold side performance. So when your heatsink is too hot it's not very good.

For your tank Nano of 10 litre i think 175w is good for you. My 45w cool around 8 litre of water to 27 degree .. imagine 3x the power .. i think 25 is highly possible based on Fruitie own experience.

[NanoDave]

My heatsink is warm to the touch :D i can touch it with no problem even after running for 8 hrs non stop. My 90mm fan is a bit crap not fast enough but slow = no noise which is also good. But i think a 175w onto the same heatsink will be hot and a 320w ....... That's why maybe i will change to a 120mm powerful fan. Anyway i got the Profantec AC fan which is very powerful.. that can be modified and put to use.

I do not know the efficiency of stacking yet but it suppose to help. Of course it's going to be more efficient if you open another 'hole' and simply add another peltier in. Remember the hot side of your peltier/heatsink also have an effect on your peltier cold side performance. So when your heatsink is too hot it's not very good.

For your tank Nano of 10 litre i think 175w is good for you. My 45w cool around 8 litre of water to 27 degree .. imagine 3x the power .. i think 25 is highly possible based on Fruitie own experience.

Is the cooling power directly proportional to wattage?

If so we lets say we only need to double the temperature difference (from 2.5 deg --> 5 deg) so a 72W will be just right? :)

[silane]

If I keep it running it also stays at 2.5 degrees below ambient (27.5 in 30 deg ambient) and doesn't do down any further. You can say that throughout the time I was staring at the digital thermometer dropping until it levels off, so I'm pretty sure the temperature will not go down further.. :undecided

I'm feeling better now.. yesterday I was quite disappointed I almost threw the whole unit down the rubbish chute lol


You stared till 3am, huh? :D Don't be disappointed, peltier is not the best way to cool something, if not, there will be peltier based refrigrator. Do you want to look into DIY refrigerant based chiller? There are air con/fridge services parts easily available.


Spinex,
Clarification, my Peltier is the one I showed in the Ebay link, it is specified to operate at 130W to 170Wmax, at 15V. Since there is a large variation in wattage, if you operate it at 15V, you can get 130W. If you operate it at 12V, you are expected to get 104 to 120W. I got 127W by measuring the current operating at 12V, it is a few watt higher than theory, but is possible due to error in the clamp current meter or peltier itself is taking that much current.

[NanoDave]

You stared till 3am, huh? :D Don't be disappointed, peltier is not the best way to cool something, if not, there will be peltier based refrigrator. Do you want to look into DIY refrigerant based chiller? There are air con/fridge services parts easily available.


Yah, stared until 3am with high excitment at first then with my morale rapidly falling faster than the temperature... :D

[spinex]

Yah, stared until 3am with high excitment at first then with my morale rapidly falling faster than the temperature... :D

You should let the thing run overnight like what i did :D
Moreover i don't think the cooling is directly relative to the Wattage supply i just use it as a rough estimate. Of course having a more powerful peltier won't hurt we just need to use a PSU that's like 150w or 200w. So even our peltier can run at 320w it's limited by the PSU. On the other hand if we need more cooling at least easier for us to find a 300w psu rather than trying to buy another peltier unit online. You know peltier difficult to get in SG and the local company in SG already reply they wont sell any to us. Ask us get Iceprobe ...


Fruitie,
So in fact it's better to get the 320w peltier because at least the max capacity is 320w. We can varies the Wmax by the PSU we use. For example your 170w peltier can operate at 15v , 12amp to achieve roughly 170w. Does it mean if we run a 12v, 14amp psu the peltier will run at 168w ? Sorry i'm not an electronic guy :embarasse

[silane]

Fruitie,
So in fact it's better to get the 320w peltier because at least the max capacity is 320w. We can varies the Wmax by the PSU we use. For example your 170w peltier can operate at 15v , 12amp to achieve roughly 170w. Does it mean if we run a 12v, 14amp psu the peltier will run at 168w ? Sorry i'm not an electronic guy :embarasse

You have to make sure a PSU can supply more than the current required at at a voltage.

Say, this is the specification of peltier:
- 320W, 30A at 15V

You will need a PSU that is capable of delivering 30A at 15V. If you want to drive at 12V, you will need 12A, at least, of a PSU. If you use an under rated PSU to drive a higher current requirement peltier (for example, a PSU that is capable of supplying 6A, max, at 12V to the above mentioned peltier), the PSU will shut down, voltage drop, fuse will burn or you will smell/hear/see at the PSU..... :D

Hope this helps.

[spinex]

Fruitie,

Thanks for the explanation. I think my PC psu at 12v , 17amp PSU will have no problem with most peltier. The only think is finding a 24V psu because some peltier require like 15v or 18v ..etc while our normal PC psu will only supply 12V.

NanoDave,

This is how you do cascading of Peltier
http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/4/6/4/cascade.gif

[NanoDave]

Fruitie,

Thanks for the explanation. I think my PC psu at 12v , 17amp PSU will have no problem with most peltier. The only think is finding a 24V psu because some peltier require like 15v or 18v ..etc while our normal PC psu will only supply 12V.

NanoDave,

This is how you do cascading of Peltier
http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/4/6/4/cascade.gif

Thanks for that photo. Before I actually thought they would be connected in parallel... :D

So like fruitpie said, we can't limit the 'output' of a peltier using power, so it is better to know the exact wattage of peltier we need, otherwise we're be having truble to dissipate more heat than we need to, use more power than we need to, and on top of that do more cooling than we need, not to mention the trouble of having to diy a thermostat into the system... :)

[spinex]

Yup there's a calculation for it but it's very tedious and difficult for non electrically trained 'engineers' like us. I got those links if you want i can send it to you. Very complicated and many issue to cover will take some time for us to fully understand. Like ambient temperature .. heatsink ...etc to get an accurate estimation.

I don't intend to fix up a thermostat really. Like that you might as well use a timer to run the Peltier every few hours becos ambient temperature in SG is pretty constant. I intend to let it run 24 x 7 or at most rest a few hours at night. As you can see from our test and Fruitie experience. It really take a lot of power to chill our NANO tank to 10 degree which is almost impossible because don't forget our tank is not insulated and the water in our Nano tank is also constantly absorbing heat from our environment. So running the peltier 24 x 7 even at 200w .. i guess we can achieve 23-25 degree at most. For your case 174w running at 24 hrs everyday might just be enough.

You also experience yourself that with your 36w peltier running even after 10 hrs the water temperature didnt drop any further. I believe that's because the water in our NANO tank is absorbing more heat from the environment than what the peltier can cool. That's why the temperature is constant after few hours. On my 45w peltier .. 2 hrs later the temperature will remain constant at 27 degree. That doesnt change 10hrs later. For my case i'm pretty sure i need at least a 150w peltier and even that might not be enough to cope with heat gain of 20 litre of water from ambient.

Hope you understand my long logic. Of course anyone who has a different ideas can voice it out. It would be interesting to discuss this.

[NanoDave]

Yup there's a calculation for it but it's very tedious and difficult for non electrically trained 'engineers' like us. I got those links if you want i can send it to you. Very complicated and many issue to cover will take some time for us to fully understand. Like ambient temperature .. heatsink ...etc to get an accurate estimation.

I don't intend to fix up a thermostat really. Like that you might as well use a timer to run the Peltier every few hours becos ambient temperature in SG is pretty constant. I intend to let it run 24 x 7 or at most rest a few hours at night. As you can see from our test and Fruitie experience. It really take a lot of power to chill our NANO tank to 10 degree which is almost impossible because don't forget our tank is not insulated and the water in our Nano tank is also constantly absorbing heat from our environment. So running the peltier 24 x 7 even at 200w .. i guess we can achieve 23-25 degree at most. For your case 174w running at 24 hrs everyday might just be enough.

You also experience yourself that with your 36w peltier running even after 10 hrs the water temperature didnt drop any further. I believe that's because the water in our NANO tank is absorbing more heat from the environment than what the peltier can cool. That's why the temperature is constant after few hours. On my 45w peltier .. 2 hrs later the temperature will remain constant at 27 degree. That doesnt change 10hrs later. For my case i'm pretty sure i need at least a 150w peltier and even that might not be enough to cope with heat gain of 20 litre of water from ambient.

Hope you understand my long logic. Of course anyone who has a different ideas can voice it out. It would be interesting to discuss this.

Yea actually I have the same thinking, to have a peltier that reaches and stops at the temperature we need to that we don't need to turn it on and off.. :)

[spinex]

So you keen on the 320w peltier on Ebay ? It's kinda wasted since we already spend so much effort on it. This is going to be my last shot on this peltier project lol

Guess i will also dismantle my peltier reservoir tank to replace the peltier chip and also to take a look how they do the insulation for the tank which is superb in my opinion because water (regardless how much) that flow in always come out cold. I think insulation for the peltier reservoir is very important so as to minimise heat gain as little as possible before cool water flow back to our NANO tank

[spinex]

NanoDave,

I got a suggestion since both of us stuck at 2 degree off ambient temperature only. We do a stacking of our peltier unit to test using my 120mm heatsink .. i will dismantle my peltier tank. We can test out the effect. I think on your tank it would be good since less than 10 litre. For mine which is about 20lite not much hope.

If working well i dont mind to sell you my peltier and heatsink at a loss to you or if you don't want you can sell me your peltier.

What do u think ?

[silane]

How about use the 2 peltiers in 1 tank? Will that make a 4 degree difference?

[NanoDave]

NanoDave,

I got a suggestion since both of us stuck at 2 degree off ambient temperature only. We do a stacking of our peltier unit to test using my 120mm heatsink .. i will dismantle my peltier tank. We can test out the effect. I think on your tank it would be good since less than 10 litre. For mine which is about 20lite not much hope.

If working well i dont mind to sell you my peltier and heatsink at a loss to you or if you don't want you can sell me your peltier.

What do u think ?

Spinex, that is actually a great suggestion! However, my peltier is stuck permanently with therma glue between the heatsinks and covered with silicon all round. This is because I thought I wouldn't have to take it out as I didn't know at the time they can be stacked like that.. :x
When I handled the peltier it seems like the 2 plates are rigid and brittle.. not sure if I try to force it will it spoil the plates or even force the two plates apart and wreck it.. :p

By the way my heatsink and fan is too small, I did an experiment and I found that if I can cool the hot side more effectively, I will achieve a 0.5 degrees reduction in temperature in the tank. What I did was I put the digital thermometer probe at the outlet of my "hang-on" so that it will be more responsive to temperature fluctuations. (In the main tank the colder water mixed with the warmer water so the fluctuation is normalised)

After that I plotted a temperature chart in excel... the following is what the graph looks like...

[NanoDave]

http://img429.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tempchart8ug.gif

y-axis is temperatuation fluctuation
x-zxis is time in minutes

As you can see, when I applied the 'ice treatment' (I melted ice on the heatsink) at the heatsink between 115min and 140min of the experiment to simulate supercooling at the hot side, the temperature did not rise to where it should have risen to (an additional 0.5 deg).

What really puzzled me is why during that time it also did not drop to where it should drop to..

ps:image is uploaded to imageshack because dimension is too big to upload in shrimpnow.. if anyone can't see it click here (http://img429.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tempchart8ug.gif)

[NanoDave]

How about use 2 peltier in 1 tank? Will that make a 4 degree difference?

That's what I'm wondering too.. if yes that it will be great! :P

[spinex]

How about use the 2 peltiers in 1 tank? Will that make a 4 degree difference?

Good sugesstion ! That should be our 1st experiment before dismantling anything. I suspect in this case we should get 25-26 degree range constant.

NanoDave,
Did you use any foam gasket to insulate the peltier chip from the heatsink ?

Below is the blown up picture how you should properly assemble it. Please ignore the styrofoam ..etc because this blown up pic suppose to be for those "ice box" peltier fixture. The foam gasket will also help if you want to dismantle the peltier because it's inside the foam gasket.

Took a look at your graph. What is conclusive is that after you stop the ice treatment and fan at 140mins .. you can see the temperature raising steadly until 187mins where it cool to 27 degree and it's fairly constant between 115-140mins. I suspect the cooling at 187mins is due to a small change in ambient temperature. To be really accurate in the test you have done, ambient temperature is needed.

What kinda fan and heatsink are you using for your peltier ? P3 or P4 heatsink and fan ? Wait till you see my giant 120mm heatsink :D

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/4/6/4/peltier_details.jpg

[NanoDave]

Good sugesstion ! That should be our 1st experiment before dismantling anything. I suspect in this case we should get 25-26 degree range constant.

NanoDave,
Did you use any foam gasket to insulate the peltier chip from the heatsink ?

Below is the blown up picture how you should properly assemble it. Please ignore the styrofoam ..etc because this blown up pic suppose to be for those "ice box" peltier fixture. The foam gasket will also help if you want to dismantle the peltier because it's inside the foam gasket.

Took a look at your graph. What is conclusive is that after you stop the ice treatment and fan at 140mins .. you can see the temperature raising steadly until 187mins where it cool to 27 degree and it's fairly constant between 115-140mins. I suspect the cooling at 187mins is due to a small change in ambient temperature. To be really accurate in the test you have done, ambient temperature is needed.

What kinda fan and heatsink are you using for your peltier ? P3 or P4 heatsink and fan ? Wait till you see my giant 120mm heatsink :D



The ambient temperature was 30 degress throughout but that was just from a normal room thermometer. :)

I did not have the foam gasket.. :p not sure where to get it from.. in its place I put a thick layer of silicon.

I did think of using an insulating material there but I could not find anything with such a thin thickness.. from my memory the thickness of the peltier is only around 2 mm.. so what I did was I filled all the area beside the peltier with silicon, even around where the 2 wires are. (That is why I am not scared to do the "ice treatment", because the connections are all inside sillicon now so they are airtight and watertight.. :)

The heatsink fan I use is 50mm width and 10mm thick.. the heatsink is the same size but about 30mm thick. Not sure is it for p3 or p4.. maybe for a p2! lol

[xtrekker]

I having been toying with the idea of the mini chiller for a while since i saw a beer cooler in a electronics magazine. Only kick start this project when i saw fellow forumers doing it .My first attempt was a flop with was leaking form the black box. After a couple of attemps i managed to chill my 13L tank down to 21 degrees @ ambient 27degrees in my second try .

parts list :

1 x 48W TEM
1 x Folded fin heatsink
2 x 40mm x 40mm 12VDC fan
1 x 300 ATX PSU

misc : choroform , arcylic , arcylic "angle strip" , heatsink compound , epoxy.

some issues observed from my first try.

1. RTV silicone dun really create a strong bond with plastics. Liquid epoxy is better.

2. Good insulation is needed between the the heatsink and the chiller. This could be achieved creating a air gap between the heatsink and the chiller.I did it by using putty epoxy to glue the4 corners of the heatsink to the chiller therefore only 4 point contact with the chiller with the air gap as insulation .

3. Applying just enough heatsink compound to cover the micro airgaps between the heatsink and TEM. The heatsink compound is to cover the airgap
too much will cause some thermal resistance( suddenly seems to rememeber what my was taught). What i did was to scrap the excess off with a pen knif blade.

4. Last but not least the air velocity. I managed to reduce the temperature by 1 degrees by sucking more hot air out from the exhuast side of the fins.


ps : In forced air colling , its not the size of the heatsink but the total surface area. Using folded fin type of heatskin ensure the maximum surface area achieved.

cheers
xtrekker

[xtrekker]

You can view pics of my prototype in the gallery. Do a search for mini chiller

cheers
xtrekker

[xtrekker]

The ambient temperature was 30 degress throughout but that was just from a normal room thermometer. :)

I did not have the foam gasket.. :p not sure where to get it from.. in its place I put a thick layer of silicon.

I did think of using an insulating material there but I could not find anything with such a thin thickness.. from my memory the thickness of the peltier is only around 2 mm.. so what I did was I filled all the area beside the peltier with silicon, even around where the 2 wires are. (That is why I am not scared to do the "ice treatment", because the connections are all inside sillicon now so they are airtight and watertight.. :)

The heatsink fan I use is 50mm width and 10mm thick.. the heatsink is the same size but about 30mm thick. Not sure is it for p3 or p4.. maybe for a p2! lol


You can get liquid gasket / gasket from your friendly mechanic. For the thin insulating material i think you can get it from motorcycle workshop they use it to insulated the area between the exhuast and seat/cover.

[NanoDave]

I having been toying with the idea of the mini chiller for a while since i saw a beer cooler in a electronics magazine. Only kick start this project when i saw fellow forumers doing it .My first attempt was a flop with was leaking form the black box. After a couple of attemps i managed to chill my 13L tank down to 21 degrees @ ambient 27degrees in my second try .

parts list :

1 x 48W TEM
1 x Folded fin heatsink
2 x 40mm x 40mm 12VDC fan
1 x 300 ATX PSU

misc : choroform , arcylic , arcylic "angle strip" , heatsink compound , epoxy.

some issues observed from my first try.

1. RTV silicone dun really create a strong bond with plastics. Liquid epoxy is better.

2. Good insulation is needed between the the heatsink and the chiller. This could be achieved creating a air gap between the heatsink and the chiller.I did it by using putty epoxy to glue the4 corners of the heatsink to the chiller therefore only 4 point contact with the chiller with the air gap as insulation .

3. Applying just enough heatsink compound to cover the micro airgaps between the heatsink and TEM. The heatsink compound is to cover the airgap
too much will cause some thermal resistance( suddenly seems to rememeber what my was taught). What i did was to scrap the excess off with a pen knif blade.

4. Last but not least the air velocity. I managed to reduce the temperature by 1 degrees by sucking more hot air out from the exhuast side of the fins.


ps : In forced air colling , its not the size of the heatsink but the total surface area. Using folded fin type of heatskin ensure the maximum surface area achieved.

cheers
xtrekker

Thanks for sharing! :) Since you have used just a slightly more powerful TEM then the one I used and you achieved much better results, it must be something terribly wrong I done! :shocked:


http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/6/4/1/rightview.jpg
From this pic it looks like you have 2 fans one on top and one below.. are both the fans blowing inwards, outwards or bottom in top out? how big is your folded heatsink?

1. RTV silicone dun really create a strong bond with plastics. Liquid epoxy is better.

Is liquid epoxy the one where you have to mix two types of substances together before you used? I used it before in non-aquaria projects but I have no idea how toxic they are.. have you used it for aquaria before? :)

For me I used chlorofoam and the "angle strip" for the strength plus silicon only for kiasu waterproofing.. works everytime but it would have looked more neat without the silicon which I agree is not really necessary. However I feel more safe with the silicon because five-plan tanks have them too on top of the adhesive they use to join the pieces together.. it would probably save the manufacturers some costs if they do away with the silicon but they didn't, so maybe it is something useful in the long term waterproofing... :)



2. Good insulation is needed between the the heatsink and the chiller. This could be achieved creating a air gap between the heatsink and the chiller.I did it by using putty epoxy to glue the4 corners of the heatsink to the chiller therefore only 4 point contact with the chiller with the air gap as insulation .
This may be the part I went wrong! :shocked: :shocked:
Is the air gap on the hot side or on the cold side?

Really nice to see it work well for you. Can see the dew forming on your tank already! Congrats! :)

Cheers!
Dave

[silane]

Yap, it is nice to see a low powered peltier can go down to that low temperature. :thumbsup:

[spinex]

Xtrekker,

Well done and very useful information from you :2thumbsup.

My 45 watt peltier can't even get 25 degree on 10 litres of water.

Now i must think what's wrong with my setup ..

It will be good if you can join us for next gathering or I and NanoDave meet you up so we could get advice from you. My heatink is folded fin and it's huge and warm to the touch with peltier is running so i guess not much problem with that.

Insulation between the peltier and heatsink is the foam gasket. Since i did not assemble this peltier unit so my only option is dismantle it to check.

The rest of the points raised by you

1. RTV silicone dun really create a strong bond with plastics. Liquid epoxy is better.

You mean you are using liquid expoy to stick the whole peltier unit to your acrylic reservoir right ? I have no idea what liquid epoxy is. Will google it later.

2. Good insulation is needed between the the heatsink and the chiller. This could be achieved creating a air gap between the heatsink and the chiller.I did it by using putty epoxy to glue the4 corners of the heatsink to the chiller therefore only 4 point contact with the chiller with the air gap as insulation .

4 contact point is good enough for the peltier to transfer the heat to the heatsink. This is a very new idea because most information i found online (even for PC chilling) they just apply heatsink compund and paste the whole peltier surface area onto the heatsink suppose to transfer heat better.

3. Applying just enough heatsink compound to cover the micro airgaps between the heatsink and TEM. The heatsink compound is to cover the airgap
too much will cause some thermal resistance( suddenly seems to rememeber what my was taught). What i did was to scrap the excess off with a pen knif blade.

Your micro airgap is like 1mm only ? Or else with so much thermal compound like what you mentioned it will cause too much thermal resistance.

What's the cold plate you use ? Anodized alummium ? May i ask where you got it ? I think i need to get one.

[xtrekker]

Hi Dave ,

The reason i suspect that i managed to get the temperature to 21 is that the ambient temperature yesterday is pretty low. Have to wait for a warmer day to check the lowest temperature i can acheive with this chiller.

From this pic it looks like you have 2 fans one on top and one below.. are both the fans blowing inwards, outwards or bottom in top out? how big is your folded heatsink?

As we all know hot air rise. The bottom fan in blowing in , the top fan is sucking air out. managed to reduced the temp by 1 degree after i added the top fan.

>>Is liquid epoxy the one where you have to mix two types of substances together before you used? I used it before in non-aquaria projects but I have no idea how toxic they are.. have you used it for aquaria before? :)

yes most epoxy come in 2 tubes either in liquid or putty form. One is resin the other is the hardener

>>For me I used chlorofoam and the "angle strip" for the strength plus silicon only for kiasu waterproofing.. works everytime but it would have looked more neat without the silicon which I agree is not really necessary. However I feel more safe with the silicon because five-plan tanks have them too on top of the adhesive they use to join the pieces together.. it would probably save the manufacturers some costs if they do away with the silicon but they didn't, so maybe it is something useful in the long term waterproofing... :)

There is trick to make the joint waterproof. Hold the joint with a clamp or your hand. Apply chloroform the the joint. the chloroform will flow into the gap between the joint and "fuse" the plastic together.Apply a couple of times until the chloroform cannot flow out. If chloroform can't flow out i doubt that water can. Angle strips provides more renforcement & 2 flat surfaces for the perfect bonding arcylic. The container will be waterproof. Try peeling off the silicon. It with come off quite easily.

>>>Is the air gap on the hot side or on the cold side?

Air gap is between hotside and the container. I have to workout and patent a way to make the air gap in water...... hahaha no pun intented.

Yup water condenses on the tank when i dun turn on the fan in the room.

cheers
sam

[xtrekker]

Hi spinex ,

Thanks for inviting me for the next gathering . I am a newbie in keeping shrimps , Hope that i could get some advice from you guys.

You mean you are using liquid expoy to stick the whole peltier unit to your acrylic reservoir right ? I have no idea what liquid epoxy is. Will google it later.

>>Here's my setup. i used liquid/gel epoxy for couple my coldplate to the arcylic ( inside the container. the reason is that it will create a watertight seal with the 40mm x 40mm hole i cut to place my TEM.

4 contact point is good enough for the peltier to transfer the heat to the heatsink. This is a very new idea because most information i found online (even for PC chilling) they just apply heatsink compund and paste the whole peltier surface area onto the heatsink suppose to transfer heat better.

>>I think you misunderstood me. The whole heat sink is siting on the TEM with thermal compound in between. My TEM is 4mm thick. The depth of the hole in the arylic is 3mm that leaves 1mm gap between the container and the surface that is not touching the TEM. So i just glue the 4 corners of the heatsink to the container. Because i too lazy to go get the some insulating foam.

Your micro airgap is like 1mm only ? Or else with so much thermal compound like what you mentioned it will cause too much thermal resistance.

>>The ceramic surfaceof the TEM and Heatsink is uneven if you look under a microscope.these are in nano or micro millimeters. When these 2 are sitting on each other , there are very very small air pockets formed these will act as insulator. The heatsink compound acts as a filler to get rid of these air pockets.The amount needed is exactly the amount needed to created a air free coupling between the surfaces. Aluminium is a much better heat conductor then thermal compunds

What's the cold plate you use ? Anodized alummium ? May i ask where you got it ? I think i need to get one.

>> I think so. Its a P4 Heatsink. You can get it in Sim Lim Square or any computer repair shop.

cheers
xtrekker

[spinex]

Xtrekker,

Thanks for your explanation and it helped to clear up my confusion.

You are keeping cherry shrimps ? By using Epoxy and CPU heatsink long term as the cold plate will it be detrimental to your shrimps is still unknown. Esp if you want to keep more sensitive shrimps in the tank.

Anodized aluminium is suppose to be less corrosive.

Did you get your peltier locally or order it via online ? Can share your sources ?

What was your tank water temperature before you add the peltier device in ? 25-26 ? Because for the past 2 days my tank temperature with fan is 25-26 due to the rainy weather.

Seem like there was a lot of difference in your peltier performance compare to my 45w, NanoDave 36w and Fruitpie 125w experiment.

Fruitpie having a 125w peltier can only get to 24 degree at most for a small nano tank of about 15 litre.

Mine and Dave around 27 degree with about 10 litre of water. Mine is tested with water temperature at 29 degree.

[xtrekker]

Hi Spinex,

No worries I thought i would bored you to death its happened when i explained it to my gf. My cherry & tigers are happen scouring for alage but my malayan looks like they are in hibernation .I just started keeping shrimp and planted tank. Once successful . i hope i can proceed on to keeping CRS.

>>>Did you get your peltier locally or order it via online ? Can share your sources ?

Got my peltier from sim lim tower basement level. Forgot the name of the shop. That shop is deal in temperature sensors and measuring equipment.

>>What was your tank water temperature before you add the peltier device in ? 25-26 ? Because for the past 2 days my tank temperature with fan is 25-26 due to the rainy weather.

Measurements from my probe in out of my tank was about 27. The temperature in my tank now is 23.5

>>Seem like there was a lot of difference in your peltier performance compare to my 45w, NanoDave 36w and Fruitpie 125w experiment.

I think the main problem with is the heat dissipation from the heatsink. The cooler your heatsink is the more cooling power the TEM has. If i am correct most TEM have a Delta T (difference temperature) of at least 70degrees.

cheers
xtrekker

[spinex]

Xtrekker,

:D most women will not understand our passion for shrimps hence the purpose of this forum.

Thanks for the tips. Now we got another source for Peltier.

My giant heatsink is warm to the touch even after running for 10 hours. But then the heatsink is huge and finned with a big 90mm fan so it should be normal when it's only warm ???

The problem might be the contact between the TEM with my heatsink. Will try to fix that later and hopefully the heatsink heat up more.

Now i also have to get liquid epoxy to seal up after i dismantle my unit. Normal hardware shop should have it right ?

[NanoDave]

Xtrekker, yes I applied chlorofoam the same way as you did, except I used masking tape to hold the parts together instead of clamp :p

where did you get your heatsink with the 2 fans and price? I think I wanna get the same one too! :D

[xtrekker]

My heatsink is the folded fin type. It has more surface area then your finned heatsink . Attached is a pic of my heatsink. Most good hardware shop has it. Araldite is the brand i used. Remember to apply pressure or weight when it is curing.


cheers
xtrekker

[xtrekker]

Hi NanoDave , I got my heatsink Sim Lim Tower Level 3. Turn 45 degrees right its the 3rd or 4th store on your right. Cost me $15 for the heatsink with a attached fan. The 40 X 40 mm 12VDC fan cost $3.50. I would suggest you get a 24VDC fan to replace the fan on the heatsink. Its save the trouble of adding another fan at the exhaust side.

To get a 24VDC from your PSU , On the ATX connector :

1.Connect the BLUE wire (-12VDC ) to the BLACK wire (GND) on the fan.
2.Connect the Yellow wire (+12VDC) to the RED wire (+12VDC) on the fan.

cheers
xtrekker

[NanoDave]

My heatsink is the folded fin type. It has more surface area then your finned heatsink . Attached is a pic of my heatsink. Most good hardware shop has it. Araldite is the brand i used. Remember to apply pressure or weight when it is curing.


cheers
xtrekker

Thanks xtrekker, is it possible to buy them with fans as a set? How much did your cost? Is it available at Sim Lim Tower? Sorry so many questions.. :p

[xtrekker]

No worries . The reply is in the post above.

cheers

[NanoDave]

Ei??? How come I missed it when I posted?? I must have been blind!! :wall:

Thanks for your notice. :)

[khseah79]

Any feedback on the effects of the TEM now??
I am interested to set up 1 but like to know who have acheived the best results...

[xtrekker]

Any feedback on the effects of the TEM now??
I am interested to set up 1 but like to know who have acheived the best results...

hi khseah , have been running my module for 3 weeks now. Its working fine. My HC , pelia , spikey moss all growing very well.

cheers

[tsia]

hi khseah , have been running my module for 3 weeks now. Its working fine. My HC , pelia , spikey moss all growing very well.

cheers

Hi What's your temperature range like before and after using TEM ? :D

[xtrekker]

Hi What's your temperature range like before and after using TEM ? :D

Before ,

tank cooled with 2 x 40mm 12VDC fan lowest temp 27C

Now ,

Temp range from 21c-24C depending on the ambient temperature. About 3-4 degrees lower then ambient temp

[spinex]

Any feedback on the effects of the TEM now??
I am interested to set up 1 but like to know who have acheived the best results...

So far Xtrekker has the best result among us. You could try using his method if you wish.

[NanoDave]

So far Xtrekker has the best result among us. You could try using his method if you wish.

bro you come back already ah? :)

[xtrekker]

bro you come back already ah? :)

Ya mate . Just came back from holidays. I getting some CRS soon need some advice from shrimp expert out there.

cheers
ps : Busy last couple of weekends doing my MH lighting. nextime i post my DIY MH .

[khseah79]

Before ,

tank cooled with 2 x 40mm 12VDC fan lowest temp 27C

Now ,

Temp range from 21c-24C depending on the ambient temperature. About 3-4 degrees lower then ambient temp

Hi.. can i know where u get your TEM from?? dont seems to be able to get 1 at SLT

[Chris Low]

Hi Guy,
Found a 120W uses Peltier technology that weigh about 2.5kg, able to chill 80 litres of standard aquarium up to 25C. :cool:
Chris

[khseah79]

Hi Guy,
Found a 120W uses Peltier technology that weigh about 2.5kg, able to chill 80 litres of standard aquarium up to 25C. :cool:
Chris

Hi... are u using the 120W now? do u have any pic to show? where did u buy it from?

[spinex]

Hi Guy,
Found a 120W uses Peltier technology that weigh about 2.5kg, able to chill 80 litres of standard aquarium up to 25C. :cool:
Chris

Teco Micro eh ? :huh:

[Chris Low]

Hi Spinex, Bingo! Is available at reefdepot. May go to website for all detail. Is good new for people like me, not good in DIY, but at a price without deny.
Cheer!

[xtrekker]

Hi.. can i know where u get your TEM from?? dont seems to be able to get 1 at SLT

GOt mine from SLT . Try the basement level , there is a shop thats deals in temperature sensor and control equipment.

[xtrekker]

Hi Spinex, Bingo! Is available at reefdepot. May go to website for all detail. Is good new for people like me, not good in DIY, but at a price without deny.
Cheer!

Good for you mate ! if you need help drilling your tank let me know i got 23mm and 28mm diamond drill bit.

cheers
xtrekker
ps: the fun part is DIY your equipment.

[xtrekker]

check out this website thaisupercool. There are alot of mini fridge that have potential to be converted into mini chiller for aquarium. At a reasonable price too.

cheers
xtrekker
ps: do a google on thaisupercool

[spinex]

Hi Spinex, Bingo! Is available at reefdepot. May go to website for all detail. Is good new for people like me, not good in DIY, but at a price without deny.
Cheer!

The price of Teco Micro really put a lot of hobbist like me off. So eventually most of us would rather get a cheapsake Resun chiller which is much more powerful and not to mention much cheaper.

[Chris Low]

Well this is just my point of view.
a. Peltier technology has better efficiency thus better cooling effect per
wattage and more saving in the long run. Environment friendly.
b. It come with a temperature proportional controller that regulate
temperature very close to set point about +/- 0.2 Deg C. Unlike the
cheaper version that cut in and out at differential of 2 Deg C. Not good
for sensitive creature and chiller life.
c. I must admit that Xtrekker has done great job in his DIY unit and even
greater by sharing his experience. 3 cheers for him. Maybe he can
consider as sideline for people not so DIY savvy.... Cheer! lol

[spinex]

Well this is just my point of view.
a. Peltier technology has better efficiency thus better cooling effect per
wattage and more saving in the long run. Environment friendly.
b. It come with a temperature proportional controller that regulate
temperature very close to set point about +/- 0.2 Deg C. Unlike the
cheaper version that cut in and out at differential of 2 Deg C. Not good
for sensitive creature and chiller life.
c. I must admit that Xtrekker has done great job in his DIY unit and even
greater by sharing his experience. 3 cheers for him. Maybe he can
consider as sideline for people not so DIY savvy.... Cheer! lol

Yup agree with the points raised by you that TEM technology the temperature is more consistent. But currently in the market those TEM chiller usually for smaller tank. TEM chiller for big tank is really expensive :shocked: and not easily available.

Did you get the Teco Micro ? If i remember correctly it's like $400-500 range right ?

If you are using it, it would be great to share your experience with us.

[xtrekker]

Well this is just my point of view.
a. Peltier technology has better efficiency thus better cooling effect per
wattage and more saving in the long run. Environment friendly.
b. It come with a temperature proportional controller that regulate
temperature very close to set point about +/- 0.2 Deg C. Unlike the
cheaper version that cut in and out at differential of 2 Deg C. Not good
for sensitive creature and chiller life.
c. I must admit that Xtrekker has done great job in his DIY unit and even
greater by sharing his experience. 3 cheers for him. Maybe he can
consider as sideline for people not so DIY savvy.... Cheer! lol

Have thought about it .. but this just a hobby that keeps me busy during the weekends. i think that it would be cheaper to get the commerical set, it would be cheaper that way instead of buying all the equipment that you need to construct your own. for my case is have most of the tools needed are from my other DIY projects .

cheers

[jojoecute]

I have seen a 4L wine cooler in NTUC fare price..
Had 4 select button of tempreture..

I think can use to modify for 1ft - 1.5ft tank..

Picture attached..

[NanoDave]

Which ntuc is it at? I went to the big ntuc at AMK central but didn't see it.. :)

[jojoecute]

Toa Payoh got 2 x NTUC..

1-Toa Payoh Central ( Opposite Swimming pool )


Which ntuc is it at? I went to the big ntuc at AMK central but didn't see it.. :)

[marleunited]

jojoe, u buyg?
if u buyg, try n let us noe hows the result? haha lol

[NanoDave]

I'll go and take a look.. I like the idea that it has a temp controller :)

[jojoecute]

Will get 1 to try on my 1ft ios setup , with black ADA soil..



jojoe, u buyg?
if u buyg, try n let us noe hows the result? haha lol

[silane]

Will get 1 to try on my 1ft ios setup , with black ADA soil..

ADA brand ADAsoil or from Plan 5? They are different. :D

[NanoDave]

Is there 5 plan black soil? :)

[NanoDave]

Will get 1 to try on my 1ft ios setup , with black ADA soil..

do you remember how much does it cost? :)

[jojoecute]

Opssss
Not ADA soil...
Is Five Plan brand

www.gex-fp.co.jp


ADA brand ADAsoil or from Plan 5? They are different. :D

[jojoecute]

Is $39.90........... lol


do you remember how much does it cost? :)

[NanoDave]

Where did you buy the 5 plan soil from? Does it lower the pH? :)


Is $39.90........... lol

Will go take a look today! :)

[jojoecute]

Got it from Tropical at Pasir Ris..
They sell 2 different packing..
Big pack= $30 +
Smal pack=#13 + = 2 Kgs

I had soak some in plastics container for 2 days, took PH reading 6.0



Where did you buy the 5 plan soil from? Does it lower the pH? :)



Will go take a look today! :)

[Milk]

Hi to everyone; lol
I have being following this thread and have being reading the post over and over again to fully understand them...
i have these few question to raise before DIY 1 for myself.
Spinex:
Your TEM is rated at 45w,how about Vmax & Imax??
NanoDave:
Your TEM is rated at 36w,how about Vmax & Imax??
Xtrekker:
Your TEM is rated at 48w,how about Vmax & Imax??

For all the TEM mentioned above,what's the Voltage & Current required to get it working??
Xtrekker:
Your 300 ATX PSU,how is it rated at??Do you think is it able to support another 48W TEM in casade??

Actually i'm toying with the idea of casading 2 TEM togather to Maximise the cooling effect..
I thinking of DIY 1 to see the effect on my 1ft cube tank.If the effect is there,i will like to use the DIY chiller on my next 2ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft/1ft CRS Tank to see the effect.
Once i have worked out all my doubts,i will begin my diy next week.

Thanks & Regards
Dimas

[Milk]

Here is the drawing that i have come up with from reading this post...
Not an original idea as most of it have come from this thread and the design as well just more additional parts...
http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/2/4/MiniChillerSetup.jpg

[spinex]

I was told the peltier is 42W. Suppose to run at 12V, 3.5A = 42W. I do not know the Vmax and Imax.

Those PSU we used is all running at 12V unless u follow Xtrekker instruction to get 24V. The TEM we used need to be run at 12V only. It depend what TEM you get it will specify the needed voltage and amp.

2ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft is not possible .. this is more than 100 litre. I should say this is not cost effective at all if you want to use TEM to cool tank of that size. You need those commerical TEM unti already which is very expensive. Currently i have ordered tank of this size and i got a chiller for it.

My view is that if the tank is 20 litre or less it will be quite okay. So far Xtrekker has the best result among all of us. You might wanna follow his posting if you want to DIY for your Nano tank.

[Milk]

I was told the peltier is 42W. Suppose to run at 12V, 3.5A = 42W. I do not know the Vmax and Imax.

If i works according to your peltier of 42w and connect in series,it will become a 84W peltier and it should be using 3.5A or 7A??In both current usage,a 12V PSU should be able to provide the current required??

2ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft is not possible .. this is more than 100 litre. I should say this is not cost effective at all if you want to use TEM to cool tank of that size. You need those commerical TEM unti already which is very expensive. Currently i have ordered tank of this size and i got a chiller for it.

Hee..Hee Just a crazy idea of my(mabe a failure will prove me wrong :p )..from reading Xtrekker post,his single TEM is able to bring the tank Tem down to 3-4 degree in ambient Tem...that's why have the idea of casading 2 Tem to try cooling down slightly bigger tank.

My view is that if the tank is 20 litre or less it will be quite okay. So far Xtrekker has the best result among all of us. You might wanna follow his posting if you want to DIY for your Nano tank.

I have uploaded a basic drawing of the Mini chiller that i have come up with from reading the post...It actually combine all the ideas togather...

[xtrekker]

Xtrekker:
Your TEM is rated at 48w,how about Vmax & Imax??

For all the TEM mentioned above,what's the Voltage & Current required to get it working??
Xtrekker:
Your 300 ATX PSU,how is it rated at??Do you think is it able to support another 48W TEM in casade??

Actually i'm toying with the idea of casading 2 TEM togather to Maximise the cooling effect..
I thinking of DIY 1 to see the effect on my 1ft cube tank.If the effect is there,i will like to use the DIY chiller on my next 2ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft/1ft CRS Tank to see the effect.
Once i have worked out all my doubts,i will begin my diy next week.

Thanks & Regards
Dimas[/QUOTE]

Hi Dimas ,

The TEC i specs i have is rated at 12V , 4A so it works out that the max power rating is48W of electrical power.

for my ATX power supply , At 12V max current is at 20A.

forget about casading 2 TEC . get a bigger TEC more coast effective. I will be getting my 350W TEC to cool my 2 feet tank. next weekend .. hehe .. biggest on the market now. coast about S$42 from thermoelectrics

[xtrekker]

Here is the drawing that i have come up with from reading this post...
Not an original idea as most of it have come from this thread and the design as well just more additional parts...
http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/2/4/MiniChillerSetup.jpg

Its better to connect your tec in parallel instead of in series. In this way you can use 2 different outputs from your psu so that you dun over load your a single o/p from you PSU.

Add a shroud to your heatsink to inprove the "forced" air cooling. I doubt your heat sink can do the job.

[xtrekker]

FYI guys i saw a Made in china TEC chiller at Teo Aquarium cooling capacity upto 80L selling for about $500.

BTW , here my plan / basic design of TEC to chill my 2 feet tank 4degrees below ambient.

my calculations are based on alot of ideal system with erfect insulation.

heatload = M x Cp x deltaT
= 50 x 1 x (28-24) = 200W
m : mass
Cp : specific heat of water
deltaT: Temperature difference

heatsink : at least 2100btu/hr or 615 watt per hour ( recommended by the supplier.)

too lazy to work out the heatsink required . just over kill sure can work one.

The basic idea of this design is to water cool the hotside. if using air sooling , the heatsink will be very very big and expensive got to custom make.

prototype 1 for my 2feet tank:
hotside ->waterblock-> pump -> water reservior -> motorcycle radiator
parts list :
1. 1 x 350W TEC
2. 1 x 1200L/hr pump
3. 1 x watercontainer for reservior
4. 1 x radiator
5. 2 x 120mm 0.8A DC fan
6. 1 x waterblock
7. pipping / tubing
8. chasis

prototype 2 for my 3feet tank:
hotside ->waterblock-> pump -> water reservior -> cooling tower.

parts list :
1. 2x 350W TEC
2. 1 x 1200L/Hr pump
3. 1 x watercontainer for reservior
4. 2 feet of biggest PVC pipe i can source for my cooling tower
5. 1 x 120mm fan
6. 1 x showerhead
7. bio balls as per required

cheers

[spinex]

Xtrekker,

Very ambitious project by you. It will be interesting to read about your DIY chiller when it's done. Do keep us updated :cool:

[NanoDave]

Yah, good luck in this project! Hope it will be a success. :)

[khseah79]

haha... cant wait for the results.. but wont the electrical bills cost alot??
how much is the cost of the parts huh??

[xtrekker]

haha... cant wait for the results.. but wont the electrical bills cost alot??
how much is the cost of the parts huh??

ya electric bill is gonna increase by alot !! will try to increase the efficiency and reduce cost along the way. Now i dun have the actual unit so cannot do testing yet.i have a budget of S$120 for all my parts. main bulk is the TEC unit at $50 . the rest can scrouge from my friends , from wreckers or karang guni.

[xtrekker]

no worries . Will post a step by step guide this time and keep you guys updated.

[Milk]

Spinex:
Your TEM is rated at 45w,how about Vmax & Imax??
NanoDave:
Your TEM is rated at 36w,how about Vmax & Imax??
Xtrekker:
Your TEM is rated at 48w,how about Vmax & Imax??

Hey guys...i've being to Sim Lim tower to source for TEM but the trips turns Fruitless...i've walk & ask all shop and none say they carry any peltier execpt 1 shop think continental something wan..Their peltier is well hidden and you got ask that they show you..another thing is that is not rated...
So many i ask you guys once again where you guys got your peltier???

Thanks & Regards
Dimas[/QUOTE]

[xtrekker]

Spinex:
Your TEM is rated at 45w,how about Vmax & Imax??
NanoDave:
Your TEM is rated at 36w,how about Vmax & Imax??
Xtrekker:
Your TEM is rated at 48w,how about Vmax & Imax??

Hey guys...i've being to Sim Lim tower to source for TEM but the trips turns Fruitless...i've walk & ask all shop and none say they carry any peltier execpt 1 shop think continental something wan..Their peltier is well hidden and you got ask that they show you..another thing is that is not rated...
So many i ask you guys once again where you guys got your peltier???

Thanks & Regards
Dimas[/QUOTE]

hi dimas,

I got mine from SLT basement level. its some left from their project. the last time ( about 1.5months) ago there is still a couple of pieces left. As i mention before , the shop is at basement level , it deals in temperature measuring equipment. I had to ask everyshop until i got it.

ps: i ordered my lastest peltier from ebay 350W for $50 including shipping.

cheers
sam

[silane]

for my ATX power supply , At 12V max current is at 20A.



xtrekker, what is the power rating of that PSU?

Have you come across any 24V TEM that is above 50W?

[xtrekker]

xtrekker, what is the power rating of that PSU?

Have you come across any 24V TEM that is above 50W?

Hi fruitpie , My PSU is rated at 400W . 12A @ 12 VDC , 30A @ 5VDC


Most suppliers have only 12VDC. IF you really need a 24VDC TEM , you can try connecting two 12 VDC in series. 12VDC + 12 VDC = 24VDC it is still drawing same amount of current ( in theory ).


cheers
xtrekker

[quatermass]

Hi fruitpie , My PSU is rated at 400W . 12A @ 12 VDC , 30A @ 5VDC

Most suppliers have only 12VDC. IF you really need a 24VDC TEM , you can try connecting two 12 VDC in series. 12VDC + 12 VDC = 24VDC it is still drawing same amount of current ( in theory ).

cheers
xtrekker

Ok, you've got a 400W power supply and you've use a big heatsink with a fan on the peltier. How to you get rid of all this heat?

A peltier is very inefficiency, at least 50% of its power is wasted as heat so the heat from the Power Supply and the heat from the heatsink/fan will have to go into the air in the room with the tank.

So ultimately the temperature in the room will increase and this will in turn heat up the tank surely?

Then there is the noise aspect to all this. A powerful ATX Power supply may have 2 fans in it.
So with at least 2 or 3 fans running, won't this cooling system make a lot of noise?

Last summer I bought a cheap little peltier powered can cooler and simply fed 20 feet of airline tubing coiled up inside it to a small eheim water pump.
It took my 60L tank at 31C down to 26C after 12 hours.
But the fan in the cooler was pretty noisy for having on in the living room. So I opened it up and put in a low noise version of the fan.
However this just made the cooler useless as the heatsink was obviously heating up faster than the fan could dump the heat.

I would have had to double the size of the heatsink to offset the lower airflow.

I've now got a new 200L tank and I just know that next summer I'm going to have a tank at 31C again.

I think I'll be better off pumping the water off to the nearby kitchen into the Freezer or Fridge. :-)

[NanoDave]

because the extra heat is thrown into the surrounding air.. due to the big air volume the air temperature will not increase detectably. It's the same as your kitchen fridge or your TV, they both give off a lot of heat if you calculate it or put your hand behind but you don't feel your kitchen or lounge heat up right? :)

[quatermass]

because the extra heat is thrown into the surrounding air.. due to the big air volume the air temperature will not increase detectably. It's the same as your kitchen fridge or your TV, they both give off a lot of heat if you calculate it or put your hand behind but you don't feel your kitchen or lounge heat up right? :)

Depends of course how big the room is, how well insulated, amount of air movement around the chiller and the temperature of the air in the first place of course. ;-)


Then there is the noise aspect.
My wife comes from a quiet walk of life so her hearing is very acute.
Mine is less so as I come from a electronic engineering background.

So a piece of equipment next to my tank is noisy to her. But not for me.

Even a humble air pump is too noisy for her!

[silane]

Then there is the noise aspect.
My wife comes from a quiet walk of life so her hearing is very acute.
Mine is less so as I come from a electronic engineering background.


Use a LARGE heatsink with a lot of fan and a small fan, that should reduce the noise causes by a fan. :)

[silane]

I attempted to use direct cool -- couple of cold fin into the tank water, not cooling the water in a reservoir. The lowest water temperature is 23.0C, otherwise, it is maintained at 23.xC.

The voltage recorded is 10V (even though a 12V PSU is used) and current is at 5.6V at steady state, not too bad, 56W to cool down a 30x20x18cm tank to 23C+ . An airstone is placed to stir the water when measurements are made. :)

Improvements added over previous one (8" tank at 24C) are direct cooling, thick insulation between cold and hot plate. Thick insulation is made possible with the help of a pure copper block.

[silane]

Hi fruitpie , My PSU is rated at 400W . 12A @ 12 VDC , 30A @ 5VDC


Most suppliers have only 12VDC. IF you really need a 24VDC TEM , you can try connecting two 12 VDC in series. 12VDC + 12 VDC = 24VDC it is still drawing same amount of current ( in theory ).


cheers
xtrekker


I was thinking to drive a 24V TEM using 15V. :)

[quatermass]

Use a LARGE heatsink with a lot of fan and a small fan, that should reduce the noise causes by a fan. :)

no no no.

Small fans are noisier. They have to run faster to move the air and so create a higher pitch sound!

Big fans have big fins, so can be run at lower speeds to give a good amount of air movement.

Ask any PC Modder. :cool:

[silane]

This thread continues to:
http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=712 :)