Crystal Red Shrimps and Temperature

[STEVENSIM]

Hi All,

Should be much nicer, just put in the chiller just now and the colour just came back.


Cheers

[silane]

Steven,

Nice CRS you have, almost all of them have reasonably good white and redness, except that pregnant female. Is the female CRS having the same pale color before her gestation?

What's the temperature you have set on your chiller? What was the temperature before? Any behaviour difference in the 2 temperature?

[simcb]

Hi Fruitpie,

Used to have a fan to cool to around 27/28 degrees, but the CRS cannot take it. One by one die and the colour/band got from very nice to very lousy.
The chiller I have just install this evening, so now set to 26. By tomorrow, will set it further down to 25. Doing it in steps as not to stress the CRs.

With the temp at 26, the CRS colours have come back to almost the orignal state when I first bought them. Can really tell the difference even in the diamonds. The black and white strips are so distintive now as compare to without the chiller.
Also they have became more active, I have even seen a few pairs making off already.

Cheers

Hi Steven,

Good to hear that your CRS are getting better. After hearing a few feedback from other CRS hobbists, I came to a conclusion which i would like to share.

CRS can survive at 28 degrees or even more, but the question is for how long. The rate of breeding and shrimplets survival is low according to some jap websites if temperature is above 27. I kept mainly diamonds(my preference) and some crs. I got a chiller for them in my recently for 2ft. It seems that most of the hobbists are having the same problem of keeping CRS alive in their tank with only a fan.

I also had the problem of high temperature stressing my shrimps before i got my chiller. After installing the chiller, I gradually reduced the temp by setting 26 and the next day 25 to let them get use to the cold water as mention by Steven. The colors of the diamonds came back almost instantly when the water cools which its very obvious because the orange tint at the diamond's head and tail were back and more vibrant. You can identify stress diamonds/crs as they tend to keep swimming around endlessly or trying to climb out of the tank. Healthy shrimps like to keep their feets on the ground. :rolleyes:

These few months, the temperature will go up to 28++ even with fan on 24/7.
The bad thing with fans is that they dont help regulate the temp in the tank. The temperature of the tank is sort of controlled by the average room temp lets say you max out the evaporation rate it will still by 4 degrees below average room temperature. So the temperature can stay at 26 degrees when its raining and could go up to 28 degrees when its sunny again. That would really stress out the CRS especially those pregnant ones which is very sensitive to slight changes in water parameters even if you have perfect zero No3 it will still stress the adult shrimps and needless to say reduce the survival rate of CRS shrimplets.

Sometimes I dont understand why people are willing to spent 300-400 dollars to get CRS and unwilling to spend 300-400 to ensure their survival. Its not fun having to buy more CRS to top up the population after a few months trust me. As far as i know the only shrimps that can survive and breed with a fan is cherry, zebra and etc but definitely not Bees and CRS.

I read from some hardcore CRS jap website who did some test on"How temperature affect the water parameters and crs". The test is carried out in the same tank.

At 25 degrees NH3,NH4,NO3 is at the lowest mg/liter and could hold more oxygen,CO2 and etc.

At 28 degrees NH3,NH4,NO3 were increased and there were less oxygen, CO2 and etc.

Anyone with similar experience or have luck of breeding them with fans?
Please feel free to share with us as we are all here to learn. :gossip:

[STEVENSIM]

Hi Simcb,

I totally agree with you, when using a fan, my CRS die one by one, for no reason, even when all the other parameters are in the good range except for the Temp. The cost of the Teco chiller that I am using is nothing compare to the cost of the CRSs that I have lost.

kind of forgot to take a before and after pictures for comparison.

And so far, before the chiller, I have pregnant CRS but no babies. So time round keeping my fingers cross.

Cheers

[silane]

STEVEN,

Hope you and your CRS happily ever after installing a chiller. :) Keep us update on your progress. Any idea how much would the electrical bill cost you?




Sometimes I dont understand why people are willing to spent 300-400 dollars to get CRS and unwilling to spend 300-400 to ensure their survival. Its not fun having to buy more CRS to top up the population after a few months trust me. As far as i know the only shrimps that can survive and breed with a fan is cherry, zebra and etc but definitely not Bees and CRS.


I think hobbyists are mis-informed about the temperature requirement of CRS/Bee shrimps, unforunately the required temperature cannot be achieved by a fan in tropical countries like Singapore and summer of some seasonal countries. In case of seasonal countries, temperature issue may not be so bad as 3/4 of the year, at least is in comfort temperature range of bee and crystal red shrimps.






Anyone with similar experience or have luck of breeding them with fans?
Please feel free to share with us as we are all here to learn. :gossip:

I think there are one or 2 members in this forum who attempt to breed them without chiller, the females died during gestation. Well, it does not sound as bad a mine. I lost my first 2 batchs of CRS without chiller, with a fan, at best was 27+C (during the cooler months of the year), most of the time is 28+C. For no apparent reason, they died one by one, first sign was lost of color. And none carry eggs for 2 months, although their size have reached adult.

I turned to use chiller, setting it at 25C, I managed to breed them at large number, they look happier, more lively and the color look much better.

Yeah, I hope to hear from anyone who breed successful or CRS live long in temperature that is 28C or above. Anyone, please share the information.

[STEVENSIM]

Hi Fruitpie,

Thanks, Will keep you all updated.

As for the Electrical bill, not too sure yet. But recommend to buy one model above what you need. My chiller only kicks in once in a while only, so do not think it will be too high. Will monitor and let you guys know.

BTW, I do not mind paying even if it is high but to get the peace of mind.

Samething happen to me, the pregnant ones die one by one and lost of colour before that.

Not too sure they can make it unless it is in a aircon room if without chiller.


Cheers



STEVEN,

Hope you and your CRS happily ever after installing a chiller. :) Keep us update on your progress. Any idea how much would the electrical bill cost you?

I think hobbyists are mis-informed about the temperature requirement of CRS/Bee shrimps, unforunately the required temperature cannot be achieved by a fan in tropical countries like Singapore and summer of some seasonal countries. In case of seasonal countries, temperature issue may not be so bad as 3/4 of the year, at least is in comfort temperature range of bee and crystal red shrimps.

I think there are one or 2 members in this forum who attempt to breed them without chiller, the females died during gestation. Well, it does not sound as bad a mine. I lost my first 2 batchs of CRS without chiller, with a fan, at best was 27+C (during the cooler months of the year), most of the time is 28+C. For no apparent reason, they died one by one, first sign was lost of color. And none carry eggs for 2 months, although their size have reached adult.

I turned to use chiller, setting it at 25C, I managed to breed them at large number, they look happier, more lively and the color look much better.

Yeah, I hope to hear from anyone who breed successful or CRS live long in temperature that is 28C or above. Anyone, please share the information.

[jojoecute]

I do agreed with you guys...

[MitCo]

Hi all,
Just to share my experience.
I am a beginner who is trying to breed CRS without using a chiller. Recently, I discovered my pregrant CRS's eggs are gone...... :embarasse
However, yesterday I saw 2 baby CRS shrimplets (~2mm) in my 4ft tank that look like the parent. I was so happy.. :D
My plan is to see whether the shrimplets can survive at ~28-29 deg.C. If as per all you guys had experienced, I will seriously considered getting a chiller.

Wish me good luck.

Cheers,
MitCo....

[star88]

Hi all,
Just to share my experience.
I am a beginner who is trying to breed CRS without using a chiller. Recently, I discovered my pregrant CRS's eggs are gone...... :embarasse
However, yesterday I saw 2 baby CRS shrimplets (~2mm) in my 4ft tank that look like the parent. I was so happy.. :D
My plan is to see whether the shrimplets can survive at ~28-29 deg.C. If as per all you guys had experienced, I will seriously considered getting a chiller.

Wish me good luck.

Cheers,
MitCo....

Best of luck and cheers......... : :) sometime ago I had about four shrimplets
and without chiller. To made it while the other two didn't. (shrimplet was
together with the purchase when I bought the CRS)

Good luck Bro.

[STEVENSIM]

Hi all,
Just to share my experience.
I am a beginner who is trying to breed CRS without using a chiller. Recently, I discovered my pregrant CRS's eggs are gone...... :embarasse
However, yesterday I saw 2 baby CRS shrimplets (~2mm) in my 4ft tank that look like the parent. I was so happy.. :D
My plan is to see whether the shrimplets can survive at ~28-29 deg.C. If as per all you guys had experienced, I will seriously considered getting a chiller.

Wish me good luck.

Cheers,
MitCo....

Hi MitCo,

Thats great. Do keep us updated !!

Cheers

[Salamastre]

I have a question for the biologists here.

If one were to put a good number of shrimp in 28ºC water, and, not caring for hight mortality rates, managed to keep even very few alive until they matured an reproduced, as MitCo intends to do, how many generations do you think it would take to breed a heat resistant strain/breed/variant?

I know I am oversimplifying, but I believe that natural variance in a shrimp population will make some more heat resistant to others, in the same way that some are redder, or fatter, or faster or dumber, or whatever other characteristic you may choose.

Do you know of any reasons why that may or may not be possible?

I read somewhere that some mammals can be selected for a new breed in less than 20 generations. The article was talking about some kind of mustelid in Russia. Maybe shrimp with their large brood and fast maturation could do it in a few years.

Any ideas and insights I will appreciate very much.

[simcb]

I have a question for the biologists here.

If one were to put a good number of shrimp in 28ºC water, and, not caring for hight mortality rates, managed to keep even very few alive until they matured an reproduced, as MitCo intends to do, how many generations do you think it would take to breed a heat resistant strain/breed/variant?

I know I am oversimplifying, but I believe that natural variance in a shrimp population will make some more heat resistant to others, in the same way that some are redder, or fatter, or faster or dumber, or whatever other characteristic you may choose.

Do you know of any reasons why that may or may not be possible?

I read somewhere that some mammals can be selected for a new breed in less than 20 generations. The article was talking about some kind of mustelid in Russia. Maybe shrimp with their large brood and fast maturation could do it in a few years.

Any ideas and insights I will appreciate very much.

Shrimps are fragile unlike mammals.

Things to conisder below when you are playing with highly sensitive shrimps like Bees and CRS.

Problems that comes with high temp:
-water holds less oxygen
-more ammonia
-less carbon dioxide = more ammonium
-shrimps seem to eat less and less active like dont search for food and stay in one spot.

Selective breeding to increase heat resistance, you will probably end up being highly unsuccessful. Not just high the temp like 28 degrees even sudden temp shock can cause death or stress. Another down side with fan is you got to constant top up water, which often cause sudden Ph shock. Unless you managed to keep a constant temp of 28 without topping up water as often.

This is what i thought:

Stage1-
Parents dies off,the rotting bodies increase the ammonia levels in the water if not found and remove soon more CRS will follow death. High temp = less mating activivties even if breed the chances are low only 1 or 2 female and takes a longer time to get pregnant.

Stage2-
Pregnant females are very sensitive to water and temp. Slight variation may cause death and premature release of eggs.

Stage3-
Lets say you reached stage 3 where by you see some shrimplets. Due to temp the shrimplets hatch faster... according to many who attempt even with tip top water condition the survival rate of the CRS is still less than 50%. Out of five remaining ones 2 survived.

Stage4-
Btw the time, the F1 matures in 5 months their parent may pass away. You might end up with an unhealthy ratio of males and females. And ending up buying more CRS to top up the population. The chances of them breeding is dropped drastically as they proceed down each stages.

But there might be extreme case whereby one succeeds. You can try selective breeding for higher heat resistances and let us know the results....but most of us here dont have a deep pocket in order to fund this long term experiment.

It is possible but its just not worth it.

[900801]

how much is a good chiller and does a 2 ft tank need a chiller and where to find :p

[Salamastre]

Simcb,

I do not have the deep pockets either :), I can't even afford a decent number of Cherry Shrimp.

My question was purely hypotetical. I was thinking of some millionaire shrimp breeder putting 1,000 shrimp in a warm tank, and ending up with 5 pairs of so of heat resistant shrimp in a couple of years.

I did a little more online research on how people selectively breed animals. I found a lot of info on breeding pets like dogs and cats, and LOADS of info in breeding farm animals to select for desirable characteristics, but found little info on crustaceans. Do you have any links I could check?

Just a little anecdote: One time my girlfriend's pet ferret ended up messing with the heater in a Black Molly fry tank. When I came home, water was at 37ºC, and all the mollies were dead, and white instead of black (like cooked fish). One of them was still alive, but whitish and blind (white skin covering eyes). I kept feeding him, and after 2 months iut recoveres sight and black color, and continued to sexual maturity. It took all the characteristics of an adult male, but never grew more than 1.5 centimetres (1/4 of normal). It chased females arround and tried to breed. I wonder if whatever made it more resistant to heat was something genetic, or just luck. I gave it away when I changed to plant+shrimp tank, so I could never find out.

[Robert]

Hi,
because of sub-optimal water conditions (18dKH), I have to live with a very high mortality rate of my CR shrimplets. But I breed them for 4 generations now. Almost always the survival rate was less than 10%, so from a normal batch only 2-3 survive. Even in the F4, the survival rate is still very small and I can see no noticeable increase because of selective breeding of the survivors. It may take some more generations if they can survive that long. They almost died out in the last generation and only a single adult is left plus some shrimplets.

What I want to say is that you better provide them good conditions or you won't have much fun with them. A fragile population which dies out even after the smallest mistake is not a really nice way to keep a species. I can't effort to provide them softer water, so I try to provide them the best conditions I can make and live with the small survival rate.

Best regards

Robert

[simcb]

I did a little more online research on how people selectively breed animals. I found a lot of info on breeding pets like dogs and cats, and LOADS of info in breeding farm animals to select for desirable characteristics, but found little info on crustaceans. Do you have any links I could check?


I have some but the websites are in japanese which is about some group of japanese attempting to try to breed CRs in high average temperature of 27.5 degrees. The result of the experiment is, they started out with 100 pcs of CR, the females are not getting pregnant as fast, the offspring many did not survive and they ended up buying more CRs and the cycle continues..... and they finally gave up after 1 year.

I agree with Robert that all the shrimps are fraglie even if they surivive the trauma it might greatly affect their ability to produce offsprings and may never recover. Just like the molly you mentioned Salamastre.

IMO, survival is a matter of pure luck i guess unlike physical genetic features which can be attain much easier but at the success rate or less the 10%. And they dont breed true most of the time.

[Salamastre]

Well, thanks Simcb. I guess I'll have to ditch the idea :) .

I got this idea in my head when solving the next puzzle in a recreative math book: If you have mice (50 grams of weight each) living in an environment such that a 1% increase in size gives a mouse a 1% increase reproductive rate, and there is a 1% chance that a mouse will be born with a mutation to be 1% heavier, in how many generations will the average mouse be the size of an elephant (3 tons)?

I had to get off armchair, and go ask an actual marine biologist. Here is a summary of what he told me (and what I understood):

Selecting for color is easy, because you only need to select for a mutation in a gene controlling pigment production. Most of the time is it a mutation in a single gene. Pigment production does not interfere with most vital processes (albino animals can live OK except for the sun and predators).

Selecting for temperature is another thing entirely. Many enzymes only work in a very limited temperature range. You have many genes controlling different enzymes, and theres is a lot of cross interaction. To select for higher temperature, you would have to get simultaneous mutations in different genes, and all these mutations would have to be beneficial.

If you want to do the math, suppose you have only 10 genes controlling 10 enzymes. Suppose in each generation you have a 5% chance of a 'good' mutation in each gene, and a 5% chance of a 'bad' one. What is the chance of getting all 10 'good' mutations in one generation? This is very simplified, but gives an idea of the chances against it happening.

Sorry for lenght, promise I will make shorter posts :embarasse

[simcb]

Well, thanks Simcb. I guess I'll have to ditch the idea :) .

I got this idea in my head when solving the next puzzle in a recreative math book: If you have mice (50 grams of weight each) living in an environment such that a 1% increase in size gives a mouse a 1% increase reproductive rate, and there is a 1% chance that a mouse will be born with a mutation to be 1% heavier, in how many generations will the average mouse be the size of an elephant (3 tons)?

I had to get off armchair, and go ask an actual marine biologist. Here is a summary of what he told me (and what I understood):

Selecting for color is easy, because you only need to select for a mutation in a gene controlling pigment production. Most of the time is it a mutation in a single gene. Pigment production does not interfere with most vital processes (albino animals can live OK except for the sun and predators).

Selecting for temperature is another thing entirely. Many enzymes only work in a very limited temperature range. You have many genes controlling different enzymes, and theres is a lot of cross interaction. To select for higher temperature, you would have to get simultaneous mutations in different genes, and all these mutations would have to be beneficial.

If you want to do the math, suppose you have only 10 genes controlling 10 enzymes. Suppose in each generation you have a 5% chance of a 'good' mutation in each gene, and a 5% chance of a 'bad' one. What is the chance of getting all 10 'good' mutations in one generation? This is very simplified, but gives an idea of the chances against it happening.

Sorry for lenght, promise I will make shorter posts :embarasse

Wow Salamastre :shocked:
Impressive scientific explanation in layman terms.

Like you said without state of the art genetic rengineering, CRs cant evolve to live well in warm water in a short period of time.

If according the mice formula you have given us is correct, i rather buy lottery and hope to win top prize the probability might be higher. :D That way i can buy a chiller for all my tanks :joking:

[jojoecute]

I used to mantain my crs tank at 28oC...
They do breed but little survival shrimplets...
After months it stop carrying eggs, last week i add i more fan to control temp drop to 24-26oC....

With such low temp, my crs look nicer and now i have 5 pregnant shrimp..
4 pregnant crystal red
1 pregnant diamond

Some picture just for sharing...




Hi all,
Just to share my experience.
I am a beginner who is trying to breed CRS without using a chiller. Recently, I discovered my pregrant CRS's eggs are gone...... :embarasse
However, yesterday I saw 2 baby CRS shrimplets (~2mm) in my 4ft tank that look like the parent. I was so happy.. :D
My plan is to see whether the shrimplets can survive at ~28-29 deg.C. If as per all you guys had experienced, I will seriously considered getting a chiller.

Wish me good luck.

Cheers,
MitCo....

[ralp]

(even if i don´t like posts with no further information. I feel that i have to post a comment) What beautyful shrimps you have - jojecute.

Regards. ralp

[jojoecute]

Thanks..
Back to topic...

I have just instal another small fan with aluminium fins in my ios filteration to help to stable temp at 25oC..


(even if i don´t like posts with no further information. I feel that i have to post a comment) What beautyful shrimps you have - jojecute.

Regards. ralp

[Walter]

Those CRS looks good! :D With quite a nice amount of whiteness and redness! :D:D

[star88]

Hi Fruitpie,

Thanks, Will keep you all updated.

As for the Electrical bill, not too sure yet. But recommend to buy one model above what you need. My chiller only kicks in once in a while only, so do not think it will be too high. Will monitor and let you guys know.

BTW, I do not mind paying even if it is high but to get the peace of mind.

Samething happen to me, the pregnant ones die one by one and lost of colour before that.

Not too sure they can make it unless it is in a aircon room if without chiller.


Cheers

Steven sim

Back to topic,I like to hear from you after you install the chiller, what was the bill difference? Or any of you know the increase?

[STEVENSIM]

Steven sim

Back to topic,I like to hear from you after you install the chiller, what was the bill difference? Or any of you know the increase?

Hi Star88,

So far my monthly bill have gone up by $55.00. Not sure how much the chiller have contributed as the last few weeks was very hot and 2 of the aircon in the house was on as early as 8.00 pm till next day....

Also my chiller was set at 21 degrees.... very the kiasu...

Hope this helps.

[jojoecute]

I don't think it cost much on electrical bill... put it as a air-con usage at home monthly bill around $30.00 estimated..

And with such cost you assure will be very happy to see your crs beautify it red & white color..

[vinnymac]

I can validate the temperature sensitivity of crystal reds. I had my temp at 79.5 - 80F and they did not molt or breed regularly. I chatted with Fruitpie and he advised me to lower it and now I have it at 76F and they are doing much better. I have serveral shrimp molt a few days after I lowered the temp and now I have many females carrying eggs. Their color also appears nicer.

I am going to continue to lower the temp over the next several weeks and get it down to 72-73F and see how they do.

[silane]

Vinnymac,

Thank for sharing the result, hope you will have tons of CRS offspring soon. :)

Keep us updated if there is any further color improvement when lower to 72/73F.

[vinnymac]

Vinnymac,

Thank for sharing the result, hope you will have tons of CRS offspring soon. :)

Keep us updated if there is any further color improvement when lower to 72/73F.


I lowered my temp even more to 73.4F and my shrimp are doing very well. I noticed all my shrimp are displaying better coloration...even my cherry shrimp look more red than they usually do.

[retardo]

I keep mine at 72F. They breed regularly. I think it's the ideal temp for all shrimp w/ exception of amanos, who can tolerate a much higher temp.

[amber2461]

I have a 'testing' tank as I call it ... a 2.5g tank with no heater and the Red Cherry shrimps are doing well at 65 deg F (18.5 deg C). They look nice and red though ... so, just to show, they do well in most lower temps too.

[gnatster]

While on vacation my tanks dropped to 58F and the results were mixed. The low grade mature CRS did fine but all but 1 of the quite young ones perished. Of the higher grade CRS recently imported 1/2 perished. Since my return tank temps were raised to 70F over the course of 5 days and there have been no other losses. Unfortunately I cannot get the temps in the tanks over 70F without the use of many heaters that my electrical system cannot handle. With daytime highs in the upper 20's F and lows at night hitting single digits it has bene hard to get the tank temps over 68F. I have no idea how this is effecting breeding.

[silane]

Thank for sharing the information, now we know at 58F, there is a high risk for CRS. Any casualty for your bee and cherry shrimps at 58F?

[Robin]

I didn't see this thread. Pretty good info. Perfect timing with me trying to find the best consolidated info for CRS.

[shrimp]

Hi all,
Just to share my experience.
I am a beginner who is trying to breed CRS without using a chiller. Recently, I discovered my pregrant CRS's eggs are gone...... :embarasse
However, yesterday I saw 2 baby CRS shrimplets (~2mm) in my 4ft tank that look like the parent. I was so happy.. :D
My plan is to see whether the shrimplets can survive at ~28-29 deg.C. If as per all you guys had experienced, I will seriously considered getting a chiller.

Wish me good luck.

Cheers,
MitCo....

Hi MitCo,

First of all congrats on your breeding.

I think 28-29 degrees abit high. The shrimplets are weak and may not be able to take the 'high' temperature. If you think that the budget of getting a chiller is too high, consider the intial cost and the maintance cost. You can consider getting a fan to lower the water temperature.

I home tank is 28-29 degrees and with the fan I am able to reduce to temperature to 26-27. I am still testing the condition out with bee shrimps abut I am very confident that CRS can survive in similar conditions.

[Jenova]

Hi all,

I'm curious how low (in terms of temperature) can the CRS survive with any casualties. :huh:

Currently my office tank is running around 19-24c (66-75F) with cheap grade CRS. It's been 1 week, so far so good.

Regards,
John

[gr81]

My survived 15C shortly. I have still too few of them to use them as laboratory rabbits :)

[kelvin tan]

I bought a cooling fan on advice from the fishshop.I just started this hobby and have many of my shrimps died on me. Please advise what kind of chiller and for what size of tank. I am willing to invest to keep my interest going. Would appreciate advices. Thanks. Kelvin Tan

[Jenova]

I bought a cooling fan on advice from the fishshop.I just started this hobby and have many of my shrimps died on me. Please advise what kind of chiller and for what size of tank. I am willing to invest to keep my interest going. Would appreciate advices. Thanks. Kelvin Tan

Hi Kelvin,

That's a thread (http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=951&highlight=chiller) on chiller recommendation and some crazy experiment which I carried out. You might be interested.

For a start, I'm using Resun CL450 and a 3x1.5x1.5ft, 12mm thick tank.

How big is your tank? And what type of shrimps you are keeping?

Regards,
John

[myrontay]

The toxicity factor of ammonia increases by a factor of 2 for each an increase in temperature of one degree celcius.

On a related note, the toxicity factor of ammonia increases by a factor of 10 for each 1.0 pH increase.

Hence, shrimps thrive in water with lower pH and lower temperatures, within reasonable pH and temperature limits.

[crandf]

Hi kelvin, you need to figure out first what really caused your shrimp deaths. So dun start thinking that your shrimps will all stay alive just by switching to a chiller. Did you introduce your shrimp gradually enough into your tank? And what are your tank parameters? What shrimps were they anyway? Among singaporean hobbyists at least, bee shrimp are notorious for dying easily.

[kelvin tan]

Hi kelvin, you need to figure out first what really caused your shrimp deaths. So dun start thinking that your shrimps will all stay alive just by switching to a chiller. Did you introduce your shrimp gradually enough into your tank? And what are your tank parameters? What shrimps were they anyway? Among singaporean hobbyists at least, bee shrimp are notorious for dying easily.

Dear Bro Jenova,Myrontay and Crandf
I started with a 1ft 6inches curve tank with corner sponge filter. Bought PH kit,PH Up & PH down kit.with 100 pcs Malayan prawns after 3 days of air bubbling the tank. When half died went back to fish shop and order 50 pcs
Cherry as by then 10days tank should be matured. Added cherry and they all died one by one. Was told that I could have overfeed as I have moss,algae and other plants in drift wood in tank. Not giving up I went to another fish shop and bought 20 tigers, 20 Bees n 10 yamato. Day by day they died on me.Still not willing to give up I went to that aquarium for consultation whether to remove my 5 hillstream loach and 2 snails and 5 molluscus which
help to clean the bottom of tank and dead shrimps under driftwood.As there is no need I bought 5 CRS, 10 green shrimps and another 20 cherry shrimps and 10 bees. By the time I reach home some have already sayanora.Now I just sit and wait for u guys to give me the knowhow.I went to aquarium shp today and was told that a chiller cost $1,500/- and my tank is too small and the shopowner will want to help me set up a 4 x2 tank. I haven't commit yet. Need to cut cost. Hope to hear from U guys.May everyday be a good day to u all out there.

[Robert]

Hi Kelvin,
your problem is not the temperature. It's the filtration. Your nitrite level should be quite high and it kills your shrimps. It doesn't matter how many new shrimps you buy, all of them will probably die again in next days and weeks.

Inform you about cycling a tank. You can find enough information here, just use the "Search". These are two of a lot more, also useful threads: http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1020&highlight=cycling and http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=840&highlight=cycling

regards
Robert

PS Stop buying new shrimps or fishes. Read as much as you can and be patient. The chiller can wait, a fan will do the job also at the moment.

[crandf]

Also, make sure the new shrimp you get after the cycling are introduced slowly into the tank.( ie, wait for water in bag to become same temperature as the tank water and slowly introduce the tank water into the bag.)
And note that even when the tank is cycled, it doesn't mean you can then add as much shrimp as you like. IMHO, I think no more than 20 shrimp at a go, then wait a week for the bacteria to multiply first before thinking of getting more shrimps.

[kelvin tan]

Hi Bros Robert & Crandf
I will wait awhile more before adding new shrimps. Will spent sometime to go through the websites.Thank U for openly sharing your time, it creates some joy for me to look forward to keeping CRS,cherry, bees,red nose, green and other compatible shrimps soon. Happiness comes from your hearts when you give others your vaulable advices and hope you guys take joy in sharing and connecting in your own special ways.
With Loving Kindness
Kelvin Tan

[kelvin tan]

Hi Robert
I need to sent you an update of my shrimp tank. How can I sent pictures to you as shrimpnow@yahoo keeps rejecting my email.. Please advise as I am not computer savy.
Best Regards
Kelvin Tan

[Robert]

Hi Kelvin,
why don't you use the gallery? It's free for every member and it is meant for members like you, who want to show pictures of their tanks, shrimps etc. here in the forum.

regards
Robert

[kelvin tan]

Hi Robert
Thank you for your advice as I have posted pictures of my new set up tank in the gallery site. Is it advisable to do partial change about 10% every 2 days and replace it with ice cube or cold water gradually. The reason for doing so is that the weather here in Singapore is about 39 to 40 degrees and I am using fan and air bubbles to bring down temperature to 27 degree. So far no casualty. How about in the long run?
Best regards
Kelvin Tan

[myrontay]

Hi Robert
Thank you for your advice as I have posted pictures of my new set up tank in the gallery site. Is it advisable to do partial change about 10% every 2 days and replace it with ice cube or cold water gradually. The reason for doing so is that the weather here in Singapore is about 39 to 40 degrees and I am using fan and air bubbles to bring down temperature to 27 degree. So far no casualty. How about in the long run?
Best regards
Kelvin TanI had successfully maintained about 10-12 CRS for four months in room temperature / with fans here in Singapore. But they all perished over the May Day holidays due to the exceptionally hot weather. In contrast, only one casualty in my tank which was cooled with a chiller. My learning point is to get a chiller if you are serious about keeping CRS here in Singapore.

[Jenova]

Totally agreed, requires chiller in Singapore. Fan cannot regulate the temperature and cause very fast water evaporation.

[kelvin tan]

I had successfully maintained about 10-12 CRS for four months in room temperature / with fans here in Singapore. But they all perished over the May Day holidays due to the exceptionally hot weather. In contrast, only one casualty in my tank which was cooled with a chiller. My learning point is to get a chiller if you are serious about keeping CRS here in Singapore.

Thank you. Give me an idea the cost of a new or used and for what size tank?
Best Regards
Kelvin Tan

[myrontay]

Thank you. Give me an idea the cost of a new or used and for what size tank?
Best Regards
Kelvin TanI am using a second hand Teco chiller that has a larger capacity than the two feet tank I am using it for. My advice is to get either Teco or Arctica brand (the China brands one last two years at most) and get one with a larger capacity (the performance of the chiller deterioriates with the years). The second hand ones are also quite value for money.

[BaLuKu]

Wow there are so many many SG bros. I am just recently addicted to CRs too. heee :p

[turbomkt]

Well, the bad news is my son adjusted my heater controller yesterday morning while I was flying home from Japan. When I got home the tank temperature was measured at 99.5F. I didn't lose any cherry shrimp, but did lose 4 CRS (one pregnant :(). I used fans to bring the temperature back down to 75F over the course of about 3 hours. I figured that was better than multiple 50% water changes that would drop the temperature in minutes.

[BaLuKu]

that was indeed sad :embarasse

[discusdubai]

I've learned a lot from this topic.. Keep them coming pls..=)

[ICU-Mailman]

I too have learned a great deal from this discussion. Right now I have only Red Cherry Shrimps. So far everything is going well--many berried females and some babies! I do plan on moving into the Crystal Red Shrimp and have seen some wonderful pictures here. I like the ones with the white heads best. Thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge!

[Mitch]

I too have learned a great deal from this discussion. Thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge!

Agreed. I plan on keeping my Golden Crystal Shrimp at 70ºF (21ºC). I will let you guys know how it goes.

[lsang]

Just curious has anyone used the Resun Mini-200 chiller before? If yes, how us the power consumption/noise etc. Im planning to get this for my 2gal Nano tank with an option for future upgrade. Any feedback is much appreciated :)

P/S: I wanted to post the URL in Ebay but was restricted since im a newbie :)

[echo]

wow this thread is really useful and i learned alot...just a question on temperature shock, is a 2-3degrees difference can be called a temp shock for the shrimps?

[MisterB]

interesting reading this thread as im looking to keep some red bee's, and hopefully breed. i read alot of you guys saying "you cant breed them without a chiller" but is that just because where you live is rather warm? we had one of the hottest days we will probly have here in the last few weeks and my shrimp tank (still cycleing) climbed to a max 23' (outside temp was about 27). i have a heater set to 20' , and even on a warm day like today (17' outside) my tanks at 21'. the reason i have the heater set to 20' is because i thought it would be better for the shrimp, if the temp wasnt bounceing up and down so much. on a normall day its only going to go from 20' to 21' if that. and if im honest, its probly my PC being on in the room thats creating that rise.

so i think im asking the same as echo, is 1' or a few degrees over a day going to shock them that much?
hopefully the crapy UK weather and climate might actuly help me out :D