My First CR Tank

[ralp]

Hi everybody,

i just want to introduce you my first CR tank. Here are the facts:

volume: 16 liter (4.3 US Gallon, 3.5 Imperial gallons, 0.57 cubic feet)
lightning: 11W energisavelamp from 0830 till 2100
filtration: Resun magi 200 minifilter with kompressed filterstuff to slower it
co2: none
fertilisation: none
temperature: heater, 24 grad celsius
gravel: aquaclay
plants: Taxiphyllum sp. "Taiwan moss", Cladophora aegagropila
dekoration: some oakleaf, piece of driftwood
waterparameter: 7.5/8 ph, 6 kh, 9 gh, 0 no2
bioload: 5 Chrystal Red (one female pregnant :D)

The tank is one-piece-glas and usually used for plants and flowers. I got this from a friend. For some reasons is the PH very high. Is there any possibilty to lower it without too much technical stuff like CO2 or Osmose?

Regards. ralp

[Lotus]

Looks very nice!

I would think the driftwood and oakleaf will lower the pH over time. How do the pH and other water readings compare to your tapwater? I'm not familiar with the aquaclay you're using, but it's possible that is changing your pH.

[silane]

Well, I really envy you to have such a temperature over there that is good for shrimps. Hope to see they spawn soon. :)

To lower the PH, you need to soften the water. Since it is a small tank, you may want to consider mix with bottled distilled water.

[Robert]

Hi Ralf,
your tank looks really nice! Could you please post an update from time to time, so that we can see how it matures?

I never kept a nano show tank, just breeding tanks of such a size, filled with mainly Java moss, some riccia and frogbite. I would like to see how the plants grow under such controlled conditions. Your energy-safe lamp should be a kind of PL lamp, so there is a thin fluorescence tube inside. I used them too in the past but I got a lot of problems with algae because the light spectrum (it is often 3500-4000K light temperature which means a peak int the orange light spectrum) was wrong for higher vascular plants. So the light source was and still is my main problem. We have not yet these tiny clip-on PL lamps here in Europe like they are available in Singapore and that makes it much harder for us.

Ralf, I wish you good luck with your new nano tank and hope everything works well for you.

Best regards

Robert

[ralp]

Hi,

thanks for the posts.

Lotus, i don´t think the oakleaf will lower the PH. I tested oak and beachleaf over some month now and it didn´t lower the PH from the tapwater. The driftwood is a secondhand piece so this won´t affect the PH either. But maybe my SERA droptest isn´t good any longer.

Fruitpie, i was thinking about mixing with mineral water before. Not a very cheap way of having CO2, but a quite uncomplicated. :D Iam just afraid of unstable PH and that this will kill the shrimps. I had a lot of dying shrimps during the last month. I guess because of bad filtration in my 54 liter. I didn´t realise how sensible shrimps are comparing to fishes. My experience with a lowtechnanotank (http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178) and keeping Red Cherry was very good. No lost about several month. And then they (and alot of other species) died in the "big" tank with filter. Not all at once, but one or two four times a week. The CR was the best survivor by the way. Anyway kind of offtopic now. Has somebody experience with using mineralwater?

Robert. I will post updates. The taiwanmoss is doing very well and i love it. :) Hopefuly the whole setup works. After the massiv dying period in my 54 liter tank, iam not that sure about shrimpkeeping anymore.

While writing this i watch this little, funny creatures. The pregnant is doing fine and walks always by herself without any company. The others are climbing and chasing eachother all the time. Very entertaining! :D

Regards. Ralp

[ralp]

Hi everybody,

Good news. The tanksetup is doing well. Taiwanmoss begins to grow. Still no problems with algae of any kind. lol I add another little piece of driftwood and some small plants for the surface. Frogbite. Waterparameter are constant. PH is still close to 8. I spot another pregnant female. The babies are not darkbrown like with the first ones. They are close to yellowbrown. Photos will follow soon.

Bad news. One CR died nine days ago. I did a waterchange about 25% the day before. Maybe this causes the death. The second pregnant lost almost all her eggs three days ago. Just 3 or 4 babies left. And yesterday she is without any eggs :( But it is going even worse. Another CR died yesterday. I checked immediately the water. NO2 = 0, NH3/NH4 = between 0 and 0.1 difficult to see at the colourscheme. The ph close to 8. Strange. If the waterquality is bad shouldn´t all shrimps die at the same time? Iam getting really desperate about this "one shrimp die per week"-thing. I don´t think my shrimps are just old and die by olderweekness. Now are only three adults left. :(

Regards. Ralp

[Walter]

There is a possibility of different endurance of each shrimp as well. Anyway your water don't sound so bad? NH3/NH4 = between 0 and 0.1 should be ok? Sorry if I'm wrong cause I'm a newbie in water parameters and I don't measure them too. :embarasse

My shrimps are always dying off too, most of the people I met always suffered such heart-breaking problems. :rolleyes: That's why I'm not getting any diamonds or CRS. lol

[silane]

Bad news. One CR died nine days ago. I did a waterchange about 25% the day before. Maybe this causes the death. The second pregnant lost almost all her eggs three days ago. Just 3 or 4 babies left. And yesterday she is without any eggs :( But it is going even worse. Another CR died yesterday. I checked immediately the water. NO2 = 0, NH3/NH4 = between 0 and 0.1 difficult to see at the colourscheme. The ph close to 8. Strange. If the waterquality is bad shouldn´t all shrimps die at the same time? Iam getting really desperate about this "one shrimp die per week"-thing. I don´t think my shrimps are just old and die by olderweekness. Now are only three adults left. :(


Ralp,

It is bad to for CRS to live in water that has NHx, since the NHx is not too high, the deaths will not be immediate and effect on shrimps varies. Endurance is the word like Walter said.

You may want to reduce feeding, do a large water change (there is a catch here, large water change will kill those weaken or sick shrimp) and remove the oakleaf (all rotten stuff gives out NHx) to get NHx to zero or none measurable level. It is strange that your filter cannot take care of the NHx, did you cycle the filter before putting in the shrimp?

[rclover]

Nice tank! very similar setup to my 3 liter.

[ralp]

Thanks Walter and fruitpie. Endurance. I just assumed that NHx or NO2 is so toxic, that it would kill all shrimps at once. On the other hand iam not sure if it is 0.0 or 0.1 on the colourscheme. I guess then that the first shrimp died because of a too big waterchange. The other maybe bad water ... Anyway. The pregnant female is still alive and is having some babies. Looks like she has lost some. At least in my paranoid mind. Keep the fingers crossed!

Thanks rclover - unless my nanotank is almost six times bigger then yours 16 liter.

Regards. ralp

[simcb]

Thanks Walter and fruitpie. Endurance. I just assumed that NHx or NO2 is so toxic, that it would kill all shrimps at once. On the other hand iam not sure if it is 0.0 or 0.1 on the colourscheme. I guess then that the first shrimp died because of a too big waterchange. The other maybe bad water ... Anyway. The pregnant female is still alive and is having some babies. Looks like she has lost some. At least in my paranoid mind. Keep the fingers crossed!

Thanks rclover - unless my nanotank is almost six times bigger then yours 16 liter.

Regards. ralp

Free ammonium is harmful when high which comes with high ph. I notice bees tend stress when ph is 7.2-7.5 let alone 8. The problem with small tank is water change, so try not to change more the 10% a week. Try to keep the ph down to is slighty acidic. Control feeding which is very hard to "control"... :rolleyes: " need ....to..... feed" :D

[ralp]

UPDATE:

Add a little piece of driftwood (left). Add some plants. On leftside frogbite (Lim...) and on rightside Ludwigia Mullertii (just an experiment - iam aware that this is a difficult plant). I also reduced the oakleaves - like fruitpie recommended. Bioload is now 3 CR including one pregnand female.

Regards. Ralp

[Walter]

The set-up looks very nice and natural.. But yea, do note about maintiance, tough to maintain such a set-up. :)

[ralp]

Update:

Today died the pregnant female. :cry: :cry: Iam sooo sad. Now i moved the other to the big tank. The waterparameters are still the same. I did a waterchange yesterday evening and cleaned the outlet of the filter.

This nanotank will be without shrimps until i get a better clue about this tiny little creatures... Maybe i should start with some japonica or snails instead...

Gosh - iam really sad and feel bad about the dead mother...

Regards. Ralp

[simcb]

Update:

Today died the pregnant female. :cry: :cry: Iam sooo sad. Now i moved the other to the big tank. The waterparameters are still the same. I did a waterchange yesterday evening and cleaned the outlet of the filter.

This nanotank will be without shrimps until i get a better clue about this tiny little creatures... Maybe i should start with some japonica or snails instead...

Gosh - iam really sad and feel bad about the dead mother...

Regards. Ralp

Sorry to hear about your lost.

The rise in ph could also be due to the rotting leaves contributing to the already existing no2,no3 or ammonia. Its best to remove anything rotting in a crs tank next time, as they are more sensitive then cherries to the byproducts released. I even have bad experiences with driftwoods...after a while they started leaking oil of some sort my cherries started dying one a day and i decided no more driftwoods for me.

I read your first post saying your friend used it for plants and flowers? Could it be that he used fertilizer in that tank before? There might be some remaining chemicals even if you wash it once. Add a pack of AC (activated carbon) that might help reduce to time need to draw whatever wierd harmful chemicals in the tank just remember to change the AC often as after a month or two if will get soak up with the waste and start leaking. Maybe you should try breeding some cherries in that tank later.

[ralp]

Thank you - simcb. I agree - maybe i should stuck to red cherries. After all.

Regards. Ralp

[star88]

I totally agree wif simcb, cherry easier to manage not as fussy as CRS. Get those real orangee ones, is quite beautiful too.

[azn_fishy55]

NH4 is more toxic as higher pH,so with softer water it would be a less toxic ammonium ion.So I'd change some water and try to lower the pH a bit by bit slowly so it doesn't cause any shock to the existing shrimp.Since at lower pHs ammonia is converted to ammonium which is less toxic to organisms.

[gladhertha_]

Thank you - simcb. I agree - maybe i should stuck to red cherries. After all.

Regards. Ralp


Oh, so sorry about the dead mother.... :cry: :undecided
It's really sad that CRS don't work in your tank...beacuse they are soooooo beautiful!

*humf, baaaad english* :undecided

[shrimp]

Thank you - simcb. I agree - maybe i should stuck to red cherries. After all.

Regards. Ralp

Dont give up its just a small learning experience. :)

When you said that the water perimeters is still the same... do you mean the PH level? The mother CRS died... what about the rest of them?

I heard that a rise in PH will cause the hardening of the creature's shell and hence might cause the death of the mother as the shell needs to expand during pregancy.

Cheer up :)