Standardization of naming convention on Bee, New Bee and Diamond Shrimp

[silane]

Due to the fact that different regions have their own way of calling Bee, New Bee or Diamond shrimp, I propose a standard way of calling them in this forum to avoid confusion.

Currently:

Singapore/Taiwan/Some other parts of Asia
Shrimp that crystal red shrimp is derived from is called Diamond Shrimp.
Other Bee shrimp look-alike shrimps are called Bee Shrimp.

Germany/Japan
Shrimp that crystal red shrimp is derived from is called Bee Shrimp.
Other Bee shrimp look-alike shrimps are called New Bee Shrimp. (Will there be a Very New Bee ?? )

USA
Shrimp that crystal red shrimp is derived from is called ...... (Anyone keep this there?)
Other Bee shrimp look-alike shrimps are called Bee Shrimp.

I propose to called them as:
Shrimp that crystal red shrimp is derived from to be called Diamond/Bee Shrimp.
Other Bee shrimp look alike shrimps are called Bee/New Bee Shrimp.

Details for:
Diamond/Bee Shrimp (http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=2)

Bee/New Bee Shrimp (http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=1)

Well, you will have a little more to write when do a posting, but this certainly helps to clear extra query on what shrimps are you referring to. :)

[Walter]

great info, i am finnally not confused about this :D

[Jane of Upton]

Hi Fruitpie,

I believe that in the U.S., there are "Bee Shrimp" (the ones from which the Crystal Red color variant is derived) and "BumbleBee Shrimp". (Another bee name, just to add to the confusion *ugh*). The Bee Shrimp has white coloration closest to its head, and the Bumblebee Shrimp has black coloration closest to its head. But, looking at the literature and web info from US sources, there is a LOT of confusion about it. Plus, retailers are quite willing to attach a recognizable name to a shrimp, regardless of whether its correct or not, as long as it increases the sales price. It really makes it difficult to be sure we're talking about the same thing!

The Bee, Bumblebee and Crystal Reds are much less common here. However, the Red Cherry Shrimp has gained some mainstream popularity. I believe this is why I've seen Malayan shrimp with red coloration sold as Red Cherry Shrimp on several occasions.

I like your suggestions, and will try to put these designations to use.
Thanks for this post!
-Jane

[NanoDave]

I think retailers might not want to use the name "new bee shrimp" as the casual walk-in customer may find the naming of a bee shrimp as a new bee shrimp weird. It is like a fish shop selling goldfish, catfish and new fish. :p

[Fish Newb]

From what I have found looking for bee shrimp in the USA to get (which I am still searching for around 10 if you can sell me some let me know)

bee shrimp is the one that CRS where bred from

Bumble Bee shrimp are usually new bee.

hope this helps clear up what us americans call them because I had the same problems a few weeks ago:stars:

[acesk]

Hmmm. I belive we need to post all the bee,new bee and diamon shrimp pic to take a look in order really determine and have a standard name for all of them.

My way of judging is:

Bee Shrimp: Black/Brown/reddish brown with super poor coloration of black and brown/reddish brown and very very little to no white dots (the 4 dots, usually does not exist on it's tail)on the tail. The white ring is usually in stripe,little white/yellowish to transparent.


Bumble Bee Shrimp: ALmost same as bee shrimp. I belive the seller wana make it sound nicer like last time there was once a famous bumble bee yoyo in market. Only major difference is they usually come in very well balance black and white rings. Colouration of black ranges from normal to good. No white dots on tail. White ring is usually very very thin in layer to transparent. I belive this BBS are specially selected from bee shrimp.


Diamon Shrimp: A Cross breed from unknow origin like the crystal red (natural and artifical selection) with pure black coloration and 4 white dots on it's tail. Those without the dots should be consider as "good grade" bee shrimp or "lost grade" diamon shrimp???. (Ancestor heritence is bee rite???)The white ring/stripe determine it's grade. As long its pure/good black and have 4 dots i would call it diamon shrimp. :p


Crystal Red Shrimp: Not sure you people agree or not but my observation is that 95% CRS has 4 dots on tail. Good Red colouration. Like diamon shrimp but is call crystal red because of its red. :p Those with no dots are red bee shrimp??? (The abnormaly ancestor heritence??) CRS that loss it's white colouration usually still have it's tail's white dots. Anyone have special case?


New bee Shrimp: I practically have not seen 1 before in any LFS. Basically only seen them in books and internet pic. Notice that they bear the same resemblence of having white flakes spot on their body. They have white dots on their tail but the white rings are usually in flaking "dots" form. Colours ranges from red to black to brown to red+brown. Crystal red and diamon cross breed with child having black and red colour combination is also call new shrimp in many places. Addition point - CRS that suffers 70% to 80% white colour lost will/may represent itself with the white dots/flakes. But only have a 30% look alike comparing to a NBS.

I have seen in LFS seller selling Red and black mixed bee shrimp (no white dots on tail) with nice crs type white band (C to B grade including) but the tail doesn't have any white dots. The Uncle sell it as bee shrimp.

Summary, those without/with incomplete white dots on tail for the above type of shrimp are bee/bumble bee. With completed (4 dots) dots on tail are CR/D/NB Shrimp. Hey...didn't notice this was a 1yr old post! :)

Hope this helps. :)
(Wow..fedora powered!!??)

[Frank]

And what about the red bee shrimp? :inquisiti ;)
As there are some newer informations it´s a good idea to talk about the names again.

[ramsvella]

Also, I have seen and actually bought caridina shrimps from Germany's Aquarium Glaser. The shrimps are called caridina 'black and white':bs_help:

[Frank]

Also, I have seen and actually bought caridina shrimps from Germany's Aquarium Glaser. The shrimps are called caridina 'black and white':bs_help:

Normally "black and white" shrimp is called for higher grade bee shrimps in germany. Glaser is a big wholesaler, who knows where they get there shrimps from. I suggest they are imported from asia. A pic would help a lot to identify your shrimps.

[retardo]

A few things need to be clarified...

1) Diamond shrimp are *not* selectively bred nor are they crossbreeds/hybrids of anything else. Diamond shrimp, as far as I know, exist in the wild as you see them, black and white stripes. Crystal Reds were created from a mutation of the Diamond. That is, a few red variants from Diamond shrimp were selectively bred to what we know as the Crystal Red. Also, purely speaking, Diamonds are not graded the same way that CRS are. There are some that look better than others, but no real grading system exists for them.

2) Bumblebee Shrimp are not the same as a Bee Shrimp. There is significant difference that can be noticed from the stripes. Bumblebee shrimp have the black stripe as the first stripe on its head, whereas the Bee (Diamonds, Crystal Reds) shrimp has the white stripe first.

[cheetf]

A few things need to be clarified...

1) Diamond shrimp are *not* selectively bred nor are they crossbreeds/hybrids of anything else. Diamond shrimp, as far as I know, exist in the wild as you see them, black and white stripes. Crystal Reds were created from a mutation of the Diamond. That is, a few red variants from Diamond shrimp were selectively bred to what we know as the Crystal Red. Also, purely speaking, Diamonds are not graded the same way that crystal red shrimp are. There are some that look better than others, but no real grading system exists for them.
.

Could you please tell me the source of this information? I seem to have read somewhere else that states the opposite.

[retardo]

I have a friend who has connections in Asia that get them for him from the wild.

Also, if you could direct me to your sources, it would be helpful too. I'd like to know where others get their info.

[Fish Newb]

A few things need to be clarified...

1) Diamond shrimp are *not* selectively bred nor are they crossbreeds/hybrids of anything else. Diamond shrimp, as far as I know, exist in the wild as you see them, black and white stripes. Crystal Reds were created from a mutation of the Diamond. That is, a few red variants from Diamond shrimp were selectively bred to what we know as the Crystal Red. Also, purely speaking, Diamonds are not graded the same way that crystal red shrimp are. There are some that look better than others, but no real grading system exists for them.

2) Bumblebee Shrimp are not the same as a Bee Shrimp. There is significant difference that can be noticed from the stripes. Bumblebee shrimp have the black stripe as the first stripe on its head, whereas the Bee (Diamonds, Crystal Reds) shrimp has the white stripe first.


This sounds about right:D . BUT some Diamond shrimp ARE selectivly bred, And the grading is pretty much the same grading we use for CRS. CRS are a genetic mutation from where a recessive trait (red) was brought out, and then selectively bred to enhance it. Now they are selectively bred for the white coloration.


I believe "Bumble Bee" Is new bee. And of corse Bee is the one CRS where bred from.

Hope this helps,

- Andrew

[retardo]

This sounds about right:D . BUT some Diamond shrimp ARE selectivly bred, And the grading is pretty much the same grading we use for crystal red shrimp. crystal red shrimp are a genetic mutation from where a recessive trait (red) was brought out, and then selectively bred to enhance it. Now they are selectively bred for the white coloration.


I agree that some Diamonds are selectively bred, but what I mean is that the initial stock came from the wild, and the color patterns of black and white are characteristics that existed before selective breeding.

[Frank]

In japan they have 7 or more types of bee shrimps. They get them from Hong Kong with origin in south china or taiwan. They don´t get always the same species when they ordered bee shrimps because the chinese exporters don´t care about that.
I think "new bee" says nothing. (I agree that bumblebee is a type of the new bee shrimps.)
A bumblebee is known as Caridina breviata, so here we have a real name.

Another problem:
High grade bee shrimps are a mix of the "old type" bee shrimp and an other shrimp. So the problem is also how to see the differences. When can we say crystal red shrimp and when red bee shrimp?

[silane]

Look like there are more then 7 types, see Mrtree's Gallery (http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/browseimages.php?c=15). Many of the species of breed shrimps are not sold in the market.




Another problem:
High grade bee shrimps are a mix of the "old type" bee shrimp and an other shrimp. So the problem is also how to see the differences. When can we say crystal red shrimp and when red bee shrimp?

I was told original crystal red shrimps cannot breed beyond bands, true?

[Frank]

I´ve read in a german magazine (Wirbellose 01/2006) that the japanese people are deciding between 7 types of bee shrimps in japan. I also think there are much more sorts of bee shrimps or let´s better say the serrata group.

Zhou Hang (MrTree) is living in south china.
He can give us tips to catch them, but I don´t know if he is able to help us with the names. :joking:

Silane:
You mean larger white bands? What I´ve heard and seen is that you can breed old type CRS until grade A, maybe a bit better. I really don´t know exactly, just read in forums some time ago. There are not many people who breed higher grades from the old type. Maybe they also mixed with other shrimps, who knows.

[silane]

Silane:
You mean larger white bands? What I´ve heard and seen is that you can breed old type crystal red shrimp until grade A, maybe a bit better. I really don´t know exactly, just read in forums some time ago. There are not many people who breed higher grades from the old type. Maybe they also mixed with other shrimps, who knows.

Yeah, cannot breed to larger white bands. I found the genes is particularly strong at 3 banded white, it has very nice color and also the spread of white to red band ratio is 1:1. Maybe that's the ultimate of CRS. I have to import higher grade to break this barrier to Red Bee Shrimps, as per this discussion defination.

[Frank]

Yeah, cannot breed to larger white bands. I found the genes is particularly strong at 3 banded white, it has very nice color and also the spread of white to red band ratio is 1:1. Maybe that's the ultimate of crystal red shrimp. I have to import higher grade to break this barrier to Red Bee Shrimps, as per this discussion defination.

I´ve seen some pics of old type bee shrimps from german breeders. They had nice colors but the lines of the red/white or black/white were not so clear.
BTW: Anybody has experience with white bee shrimps (not the bone shrimp)? That´s my newest shrimp, I never had before. Sorry for the bad pic. Just have them since 2 days.

[Fish Newb]

I have a friend who has connections in Asia that get them for him from the wild.

Also, if you could direct me to your sources, it would be helpful too. I'd like to know where others get their info.

A bit off topic but if your friend exports could you pm me some contact details like email? I've been looking for some.


I agree that some Diamonds are selectively bred, but what I mean is that the initial stock came from the wild, and the color patterns of black and white are characteristics that existed before selective breeding.

Ahh I see, I also agree with you

[retardo]

Unfortunately, he doesn't export. I know he has relationships with some of the fish shops in HK and imports them, but that's about all I know. I don't ask him about his connections... really isn't my business. :) He's not a large scale breeder or supplier by any means... so he only gets a few at a time.

[Jose]

What I´ve heard and seen is that you can breed old type crystal red shrimp until grade A, maybe a bit better

What I red in a German magazin is that to get wide bands you can cross a smallband crystal red with a New Bee (Caridina Huananensis).
I've seen pictures of them and they look very nice!! The breeding isn't very easy, because it takes longer for the shrimps getting eggs..

haven't try it out yet, because the C. Huananensis is very hard to get...

(bumblebee = C. cf. Breviata and New Bee is C. Huananensis)

Greetings Jose

[Adam]

C. Huananensis is very similar in looks to the regular black crystal, but I can see that the white bands look larger. Is the bluish colour characteristic of the species or is the one in the picture just stressed? A couple of my black and white crystals look very similar, I'm probably just mistaken.

http://www.fotop.net/justinlaw/Bee_Shrimp/IMG_9951

Regards.

Adam

[zacks]

guys.........here in my country some people call pure red line........

it means......for example the parent is mosura x mosura and always breed with those gen......never cross from white snow and golden shrimp ........

so which mean that for the international name........is it diamond or ....?