My CRS natural tank

[Xema]

Hey guys I introduce you my natural style breeding CRS tank...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crstank0108012007800.jpg

It hasn´t soil, so I use plants that don´t needing soil...

A little guy been born in this tank...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0108012007800.jpg

I hope you like it

[paikiapeng]

Wow, nice! :)

What grade is the CRS in your pic? Looks much better than mine.

[Xema]

I only have low grades, shrimplets ossualy show nice and bright color in the 'childhood'...
Here the parents...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0131122006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0231122006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0205112006800.jpg

[paikiapeng]

Cool~ :)

I hope mine will also have shrimplets too. Is there a chance that the next gen of shrimps will become 'better' grades?

[retardo]

short answer: no.

[paikiapeng]

Oh... so you'll have to get better grade CRS to create better offspring?

[Xema]

short answer: no.

So, how did breeder get high grade from Mr. Hisayasu Suzuki (http://www.japan-net.ne.jp/next/red/red*e.html) specimens???

I think getting better specimens from low grades is possible... you need a nice breeding selection program. I see in all my offspring some shrimps that show better colour than parents and some brothers, I can separate them and only cross breed them with brothers with same nice colours... Bassicaly that was the way which Mr. Suzuki took... Currently we have aviable a very large genes pool due to the selection breeding program of the breeder around the world. So to get high grade from low grades is now quite easy making cross breeding with differents grades.
The main problem I think, is most of our shrimp are the result of the discard of breeder, that mean, low grades have a reduce genes pool due to years of croos breedings... I think to solve this problem, we must get some original bee shrimps or wild bee shrimps... all genes pool is into this shrimps since all later varieties come from that orginal genes collection.

I am not an expert, above text is only my impression after some time keeping CRS and years keeping another freshwater shrimps.

[BaLuKu]

Nicely done. What is the tank size?

[Xema]

The tank is 80x25x25(cm) long

There are 15 cm that you cann´t see, that is the place for a sponge filter (HMF style)... In the fllowign picture you can see the real magnitude of the tank with the filter.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crstank0220112006800.jpg

[Jose]

So, how did breeder get high grade from Mr. Hisayasu Suzuki specimens???


Mr. Suzuki was the first breeder of Crystal Red Bee shrimp.. The smallbanded version like grade C.
Because there were many breeders who want to bring this shrimp on the market, Mr. Suzuki did make the new shrimp his brandname so no body could sell this shrimp with this name...

to solve this prolblem, the other breeders brought the new shrimp on the market as the Crystal Red shrimp.
Later on Mr. Yamagishi (owner of a big fishfarm) started experimenting with the Crystal Red shrimp en tryed to crossbreed it.. The crossbreeding with the New Bee shrimp (C. Huananensis) was succesfull... The wide banded shrimp with red and white striping was born.. He named it the Red Bee shrimp...
Grade B and grade A were born.... and now all the other grades.. made out of a crossbreeding of the smallbanded Crystal Red Bee shrimp and the New Bee shrimp...

So...

It's not possible to get Grade A from the small banden grade C shrimps...
It is possible that the white bands become brighter and so... but it never will be an higher grade...

Jose

[milalic]

Later on Mr. Yamagishi (owner of a big fishfarm) started experimenting with the Crystal Red shrimp en tryed to crossbreed it.. The crossbreeding with the New Bee shrimp (C. Huananensis) was succesfull... The wide banded shrimp with red and white striping was born.. He named it the Red Bee shrimp...



Is there any literature on this or is this a story passed by one person to another?What are you calling new bee shrimp?
I have some females 'New bee shrimp' with male CRS and they have not breed at all.


Thanks,
Pedro

[Xema]

I am not agree with that theory... (where did you read about that?)

That is violating some genetics rules (unless C. cantonensis and C. huananensis are the same specie).
Biological definition for a specie: It´s a group of individual which can reproduce between their and can not doing easily with other similar group of individual.

Many species of shrimp can cross with other similar, but their offspering are not totally fertile.


It's not possible to get Grade A from the small banden grade C shrimps...

All my females are smallbanded...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0103122006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0102122006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0102122006800-1.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0203122006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0231122006800.jpg

All my offspring is more or less quite more widebanded than parents... and a few of them are really bright white coloured... I am speaking of offspring with 1,5 cm long... following pictures are when they were 1cm long.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0227122006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0327122006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0427122006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0527122006800.jpg


It is possible that the white bands become brighter and so... but it never will be an higher grade...

So, you are saying to pass the A grade to S grade.... do you need realise a cross bredding with another sp with more white surface???
My short experience with CRS tell me the bright of colours it´s depending of external factor mostly... but I can see easily the amount of white colour in the shrimp it´s depending of genetic factors totally transmitable generation by generation... it´s a hard work, but it´s totally posible if I am not wrong.

[Jose]

Is there any literature on this or is this a story passed by one person to another
This is a short translation from a german magazine about shrimp and I have seen it on a German website.


What are you calling new bee shrimp?

The New Bee at that time was the bumblebee but not C. Breviata, but C. Huananensis. I know from some German breeders that it's difficult to crossbreed them, but that it is possible.


but I can see easily the amount of white colour in the shrimp it´s depending of genetic factors totally transmitable generation by generation... it´s a hard work, but it´s totally posible if I am not wrong.

I have got Grade C Cr for a long time and a lot shrimplets seen and grown up to adult.. The shrimplets do indeed have wide bands.. but when they grow up the bands wil become smaller... The shrimplets look really beautifull.. but my experience is that the white become lesser when getting older..
Of course some have brighter white then others and that is in the genes.. You can breed brighter white, a bit more brigth, but I (untill this moment..) have never seen wide band between my small banded CR.
If some one do have the experience that smallbanded CR became wide banded when adults.. I like to hear!!!!

At my surprice I do see this with my bee shrimp. Also small banded, but now I have some adult shrimps from my own breeding that have wide bands... But I do not know if the parents are pure wild, or that the have been crossbreed with wide banded bee shrimp..
I now am trying to get better quality of these bee's and I want to try cross breeding them later on with some smallbanded CR. But they first have to get some offspring of there own...

[milalic]

Do you have the link of the website? Also the name of the magazine?
I have been able to breed A and B CRS from C shrimp in the past. It takes time and lots of effort.

[Xema]

Definitively I have no enough experience breeding CRS.

But I can add when I bought my CRS (with 1 cm long) they have already narrow bands... Just one showed wide bands but I lost it some weeks after...

Some pictures of CRS I bought...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0607092006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0207092006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/carspcrs0105092006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0310092006800.jpg

And the only one which showed wide band and afeter died...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0410092006800.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0560092006800.jpg

Now, the only one male what survived... You can see easily it has not bright white colour...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0960092006800.jpg

In the maturity, it show basically any white...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/Aquatika/Fauna%20Aquatica/Shrimps/crs0205112006800.jpg

This shrimp is the father of all my offspring.

So, based in my experience and in the evident facts... The changes in the configuration of the colour and bands is predictable more or less.

[silane]

Mr. Suzuki was the first breeder of Crystal Red Bee shrimp.. The smallbanded version like grade C.
Because there were many breeders who want to bring this shrimp on the market, Mr. Suzuki did make the new shrimp his brandname so no body could sell this shrimp with this name...


Hi Jose,

I read the cross breed theory with interest, I believe it to a certain degree.

But regarding the naming of red bee shrimps, there is a fact. Crystal Red Shrimps is a registered trademark in Japan by Mr Shusuki, the founder of mutated red bee shrimps. When one registered the trademark, other breeder even managed to breed red mutated bee shrimp from his line or not cannot use Crystal Red Shrimp and they resort to use a common name Red Bee Shrimp. This is as far as I know. So in Japan, noone other people call them as CRS even at grade B or C. They call them red bee shrimp, bee shrimp, red diamond and .......... (In Japanese).

[Jose]

The magazine is Caridina and it's from F. Bitter. Only available for members I beleve. And the website... Have to think about that.. a time ago that I visit that site...

Jose