Cherry Red Shrimp Die Off

[DJKronik57]

I posted this over at Aquatic Plant Central first, but I haven't gotten any clear answers yet, so I figured I'd try here!

Not sure what caused it, but a all of my cherry red shrimp suddenly died off. I saw a dead one today and when I took a closer look I didn't see any in the open and saw more dead bodies. Then I found one still half alive, just it's legs were twitching. I tried to save it by transferring it to another tank, but it died shortly afterwards. I immediately did a 50% water change and thinking the worst had happened, started ripping things up looking for any remaining shrimp. Miraculously, I found one male and a little baby, so I stopped ripping stuff up and tried to put everything back as best I could. I haven't seen them since and assume they are dead.

I don't know what caused the die off. The temperature has gone up to 86F during this awful heat wave. I have a fan on the tank, but it doesn't seem to help much. I also started fertilizing with dry ferts about a week and a half ago. I've been dosing Excel above the recommended dosage as well to fight some hair algae. Could any one of these be the culprit? I removed about 5 bodies, 6 more remain behind the moss wall which I cannot get to. I started out with 14 three months ago.

I'm not sure about the ammonia levels. I don't see an ammonia spike happening unless there was some sort of die off in my biological filtration and even still, the plants should absorb most ammonia right? As for copper in the water, there may be, but I use Tetra AquaSafe which says it removes heavy metals. Plus the shrimp were decidedly better looking after a water change rather than before it. I have some driftwood and one rock in there, but they've been in there since April. Here's a list of all the changes in the past 2 weeks that may have triggered something:

* Heat wave - tank got up to 86F
* Changed from Hagen AquaPlus to Tetra AquaSafe as a water conditioner
* Started dosing dry ferts every other day and doing a 50% weekly W/C: CSM+B, K2SO4, KNO3, and KH2PO4. 1/16 - 1/8 tsp for each, less for KH2PO4.
* Had a Hydra outbreak but it petered out on its own about the same time the shrimp started dying

The more I've been thinking about it, I keep coming back to this one theory: I did replace the DIY CO2 sometime around when all this started happening. Could the combination of the different water conditioner lowering oxygen levels and the rapid rise in CO2 levels have asphyxiated the shrimp? I've heard CRS are not tollerant of high CO2 levels, are RCS the same? Most of them died overnight, when my plants are using up all the oxygen (what little may be in the water) and CO2 levels peak.

I'm ready to reinvest in another stock of Cherries, but I'm worried about a repeat die off. I have a few questions to ask those who keep and breed cherries successfully:

1. Do you add Excel, if so, how much? Dosing according to the label? More? Less?

2. Do you run CO2, DIY or pressurized? What ppm CO2 do you normally have?

3. What water conditioner do you use for water changes?

4. Do you dose fertilizers, and if so, what type (dry, liquid, and what chemicals) and how much how often?

5. Do you protect your filter intake to prevent sucked up babies? What do you use? (I used a sponge but it clogged up rapidly and limited flow to the filter, a PITA)

[Mikee]

Um..could of been the temp i know shrimp dont like high temps try and lower it slowly with fans or some cooling method. Best thing is probably to stop with adding ferts..i know some people on here dont like adding that much chemicals into their shrimp tanks..but i know people who add ferts to their tank and shrimp do fine but im not sure which ones they use that are safe maybe someone on here can tell you that.. just dont use anything that has copper in it. I highly doubt that the water conditioner change caused any problems. I myself use seachem prime without any problems at all. I run DIY co2 on my 2.5ft shrimp tank 2, 2L bottles with BOYU glass diffuser not sure what ppm is..but you can tell if your adding to much co2 because you will notice shrimp swimming to the top. I just use a sponge filter no problems at all. Thats the problem with using sponges to cover intake of pump it will always get clogged up eventually. What is your PH and other water parameters?

[HomegrowncichlidNYC]

I've been keeping cherries for a couple of years now and one thing I've learned is that they are extremely sensitive to water changes. One time, I was doing some tank maintenance, so I rinsed out a bucket and moved the shrimps into it along with a gallon of tank water. Later on, I realized I needed that bucket, so I moved them into another container, which I used to do water changes on my african cichlids. It was a dry container, but within 10 minutes, they were kneeling over and dying. Just the trace amount of hardness, salt and pH difference contaminating the dry container was enought to shock the shrimp. This is really a tiny amount of salt!
Another story, I've received a shippment of shrimp and they were fine in their shipped water, which I dumpped into a clean container. I slowly dripped water in from the new tank, and even though they lived in the shipped water container for 3 days, within 30 minutes of tasting the new tank water, they were dying off. I even ran out to get a gallon of filtered water from the supermarket, but it was too late, only 1 shrimp lived out of 24!
So now I've very careful of changes in the water pH, temp and mineral hardness.
They need to be aclimated extremely slowly like over a day!

[Jose]

one thing I've learned is that they are extremely sensitive to water changes

I do not agree with this.... Cherry's are one of the most easy kept shrimp.. I have them for a long time and once a week I change the water right from the tap.. cold and with no water conditioner or what so ever.. They can have temperatures from 10 to 32 degrees Celcius (I believe 50-90 F) and some times higher. I know some one who keep them in the pond in the garden, and even when it's freezing outside the stay allive. She never check the watercondition of the pond.. Once in a while she fishes some cherrys out of the pond and put them in a tank.. No problem at all!! Even the colors stay the same.


This is really a tiny amount of salt
Shrimps do not survive in water with salt.. even the tinyest amounts...


within 30 minutes of tasting the new tank water
How long did that tank run in??? used any medicine???


They need to be aclimated extremely slowly like over a day
When I have new shrimp I put them immediatly in to the tank.... Only with CRS. I lett them adjust at the temperature for a half hour.



I've been dosing Excel above the recommended dosage as well to fight some hair algae
I think this is the thing.. Shrimps are very sensitive.. Mostly any medicin is pure poison to them...

Did you messure the Nitrite level?? This must be negative.. Nitrite is poison to shrimps... an can be caused by adding the fertilizer...

Why using CO2? I have 28 shrimp tanks.. only sponge filtering. 1 day a week I fertilize with ProFito from Easy-Life. It's tested by many shrimp breeders in Holland and it doesn't do any arm.. In fact.. it seems that the shrimps start breeding better when adding ProFito.. Why that is ??? Can't tell you..
ProFito is a liquid fertilizer. 10 ml. at 100 liter.


Greets..

Jose

[acesk]

I don't know what caused the die off. The temperature has gone up to 86F during this awful heat wave. I have a fan on the tank, but it doesn't seem to help much. I also started fertilizing with dry ferts about a week and a half ago. I've been dosing Excel above the recommended dosage as well to fight some hair algae. Could any one of these be the culprit? I removed about 5 bodies, 6 more remain behind the moss wall which I cannot get to. I started out with 14 three months ago.


Hmmm, is your tank position near a sunny area?? If it is keep at places where sunlight could not reach easily, then it is unneccessary to dos excel to fight algae. For your dry fert, i recommend you to test it with a kH and copper test kit to see wheather it contains any metals or to see if it will increase your water parameter kH.


I'm not sure about the ammonia levels. I don't see an ammonia spike happening unless there was some sort of die off in my biological filtration and even still, the plants should absorb most ammonia right? As for copper in the water, there may be, but I use Tetra AquaSafe which says it removes heavy metals. Plus the shrimp were decidedly better looking after a water change rather than before it. I have some driftwood and one rock in there, but they've been in there since April.

Are you keeping any fish with your shrimp?? I am not sure about ammonia with Cherry as i have not tried before but if possible, do try and test it. If not, do a water change. Should lower the ammonia level if it is too high since the shrimps died. And plants dun absorb ammonia. They absorb nitrate. The ammonia in your tank is converted into harmless netrate by the bacterial (slimmy surface) in your biological system. If they are absent, this maybe the root cause of your shrimps death. So far you, seems to dose too much chemical into your tank which i think is very harmful to the shrimps. If possible, use only 1 type of chemical (e.g chlorine remover). In any fish tank, a good bio-cycled fish tank can absorb all kinds of harmful materials in an hour or so.


* Heat wave - tank got up to 86F
* Changed from Hagen AquaPlus to Tetra AquaSafe as a water conditioner
* Started dosing dry ferts every other day and doing a 50% weekly W/C: CSM+B, K2SO4, KNO3, and KH2PO4. 1/16 - 1/8 tsp for each, less for KH2PO4.
* Had a Hydra outbreak but it petered out on its own about the same time the shrimp started dying

ehhh..what does "CSM+B, K2SO4, KNO3, and KH2PO4. 1/16 - 1/8 tsp for each, less for KH2PO4." means?? :) Chemicals again??


1. Do you add Excel, if so, how much? Dosing according to the label? More? Less?
2. Do you run CO2, DIY or pressurized? What ppm CO2 do you normally have?
3. What water conditioner do you use for water changes?
4. Do you dose fertilizers, and if so, what type (dry, liquid, and what chemicals) and how much how often?
5. Do you protect your filter intake to prevent sucked up babies? What do you use? (I used a sponge but it clogged up rapidly and limited flow to the filter, a PITA)

1. Nope
2. Never use. Last time i used DIY CO2 but doesn't seem necessary for the plants i am keeping. Good for keeping water acidic though.
3. Never use. Plain tap water. 25% change per week.
4. Did a combination of dry and liquid fert before. Dry fert only use once. Now still in my tank. The uncle said do once and can be use for 1 to 2 years. Liquid fert use 1/4 of recommended dosage every water change but stoped cos it seems unneccessary for the plants i am keeping. 5 kind of Mosss and some star tree. The dry fert is doing it's job it seems.
5. Sponch filter. Those cheep type of sponch. Like those use for bathing?? A very thin layer of it will do.(leave 3-5 cm of space.) Don't use sponch for filter e.g those white sponch you find in aquarium. That is too dense and dirt and bacterial will stuck on it easily.

My current Cherry shrimp tank.
-Thrown outside the house with no tank support. (no water filter,no air pump..)
-Tank filled with green algae water.
-Tank filled with green hair algae.
-Never change water. Only add CRS tank water when ever the tank water seems low. Around once every month?
-Unwanted drift wood all droped inside.
-Unwanted plants thrown in. Still growing
-No gravel
-pests Snails
-1 x guppy to eat mosquito larve and help control shrimp population.
-Big colony of water flee flying all the time
-Big colony of Cherry shrimps hiding in the day. Appear everywhere in the morning. (temperature changes day-32, night 27?)

Oh..and i does 1 tea spoon of salt into my CRS tank before to kill the white spot desease on my tetras before but they seem fine..
I belive they are stressed in the shipped bag and thus any more stress put on them will lead them to zzz. Anyway, use a clean container that is fliped upside down next time..Let all water drip out and dry the container..it helps... To homegorchichild. :)

[newb4ev3r]

Shrimps do not survive in water with salt.. even the tinyest amounts...
Not really. I use salt to cure my guppy, about 1 spoon for 45l of water. The RCS survive.