How to increase the Shrimp Red Colour?

[Rupert]

I like really red shrimp and wonder what diet make shrimp really red? CRS, from the ones I have seen at the local LFS are already very red, the Cherries struggle to get the same colour and I was wondering if it is just diet and/or supplements?

Some quick research and it seems that Carotene is the substance that makes bio life red, the aquatic form is a substance to call astaxanthin, however in the study below supplementing this seems to have little difference from b[beta] carotene…

astaxanthin vs b[beta] carotenestudy : http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/ares/2001/00000032/A00100s1/art00039

Even found a web site where a woman ate carrot for a whole month to see if she would turn orange
http://www.steelgirl.com/carrot.htm

So what other than carrots has lots of b[beta] carotene that bring out the red colour?

[silane]

My shrimp never like carrot for some reasons.

Iron rich diet will help too, so boiled spinach is a good choice for your shrimps.

Beside food, water parameters are the most important factor for them to show their best color, ammonia/nitrite/stress free, soft and acidic water is best for shrimps to bring out their color.

There is water additive that is designed to bring out red in shrimps, unforunately, such product is too expensive and I do not foresee it will reach Singapore.

See this thread, Robert said that stinging nettle (http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8) brings out shrimps color too.

Any other ways?

[Robert]

Hi Rupert,
there are at least two major forms of red colors in fishes, shrimps and crayfish. They can store fat-soluble dyes like carotenes, astaxanthin etc. in special cells. The shrimps cannot produce these dyes, so they have to find them in their food nd their organism converts it then into storable forms.
The product "Cyclop-eeze" is very rich (at least 300oppm) of astaxanthene but I wouldn't feed it too often and only in small portions because it's also rich in proteins and fats and it messes up your tank's water pretty fast if your shrimps and snail do not eat it quickly.

But there is another form of red which is produced by the organism itself. It's a form of melanin, the phaeomelanin. Phaeomelanin is the yellow to red preliminary stage of eumelanin, which is the brown till blck result of the melanin sythesis. The red of Crystal Red shrimps should be the result of a malfunction in the melanin syntheses-chain , so no black eumelanin is produced but the earlier redish form phaeomelanin. That should be the reason why the CR do not show the black colors of normal diamond shrimps. So to feed them carotenes, astaxanthene etc. won't help you much to get a better red coloration of your CR shrimps. Selective breeding and good water conditions are more important.

best regards

Robert

[ah_siao]

how do u feed the cyclopeeez? u buy the frozen form?

[vinyx]

For details, you can search the net for cyclop-eeze by Argent-Labs.

FYI. Local LFS is selling the 30g packaging at SGD 15. However, I would advise anyone that is interested in gettting it to wait for the Aquarama show that is going to be held at the end of May. The manufacturer will be there. I got the 100g packaging for SGD 9 from the last show held in 2003. The 30g packaging was going for SGD 5.



how do u feed the cyclopeeez? u buy the frozen form?

[simcb]

As mention by Robert, food and good water condition helps maintain or achieve its natural redness or whiteness... its the genetic that determine the amount intensity of redness or whiteness it can be reach.

Therefore its wiser and saves more time with selective breeding than chasing range of food addictives in the market and ending up with all kinds of uneccesary range of products which you might end up wasting them on your shelve. I rather spend the money on getting a new tank.

Have Fun :D

[Walter]

If you are talking about cherries.. i find that slightly acidic (blackwater) will make them show their colour better :)

[vinyx]

Can do the same thing on CRS?


If you are talking about cherries.. i find that slightly acidic (blackwater) will make them show their colour better :)

[Walter]

Can do the same thing on CRS?

as what robert explained... i dont think so.. and i dont have any experience with CRS either.. :)

[ah_siao]

u means those frozen ones used for marine also?

[rain-]

Is the colour of Red Cherry from the phaeomelanin and from carotenoids, or just from the carotenoids+astaxanthin and without them, red cherries would be colourless? I myself would guess that it's mostly from phaeomelanin. I don't think it can't be just from the colours they get from nutrition.

I was thinking about this because of this article: http://www.wirbellose.de/cherry/index.html. The writer seems to be saying that most of the red colouring of Red Cherry is from the food and not produced by the shrimp itself.

[Walter]

I think genes play a big part as well. For instance like the red arowana, food do enhance the redness a little but genes played a big part. I am not sure about CRS though :) But the redness in CRS are usually there, it is the whiteness that definites the grade usually...

[juanBeegas]

I noticed that the cherries I bought from the LFS became significantly redder once they had settled down in my office tank(average temp of 23°C). Maybe water temperature might play an important part in their colours too...?

[Robert]

Hi,
the coloration of cherry shrimps depends on both, genes and environment. Both play an important role. The genes control more the pattern than the red coloration itself. The red depends on the mood, the food and other factors. But the main factor seems to be in my experience the environment, so if they feel secure or not. I kept a handful of them once in a very bright tank where there were no place to hide. They should clean the algae what they did well. But I also noticed that they tend to become more or less colorless. The males were more or less colorles and showed only a few pink colored tripes any longer and the females also became much brighter colored than before. When I put them back in their main tank, they became bloody red again. So it where not there genes nor the food but only the tank itself. All in all you can say that there are several factors like the genes, the gender, the age, the food, other environmental factors and all together influence the coloration the cherry shrimp.

regards

Robert

[rclover]

A lot of variables here, water quality for one, temperature, food, and environment(plant vs non-planted, coinhabitants).

[rain-]

All in all you can say that there are several factors like the genes, the gender, the age, the food, other environmental factors and all together influence the coloration the cherry shrimp.

I think that the person who wrote the article I referred to has most likely got confused about the shrimps ability to show their mood with their coloration. You give them more food and take a better care of their tank -> they get more colourful. You neglect them -> they become paler. And if you move them from the aquarium store to your tank, they will be stressed -> they become paler.

Because it really can't be true that Red Cherries couldn't create their own coloration through melanin synthesis, but all the other shrimps can. No animal can create carotenoids, that's why they have melanin. Carotenoids will help to boost up the coloration, but melanin is the main dude there.

*continues to blabber to herself*

[NanoDave]

From

ARTIFICIAL INGREDIENTS AND COLORANT
The colors in a fish are derived from pigment cells. Pigments like xanthophylls, melanin, carotenoids and phycocyanin produce colors like yellow, black/brown, orange/red and blue respectively. Carotenoids and xanthophylls cannot be produced by the fish, therefore it must come from their diet. The common practice of fish food manufacturers is to include artificial colorant or dye in their product. In all honesty, even though these artificial elements produce truly remarkable results, they wreck havoc to the endocrine and nervous system of the fish that consumes such food.

source:http://www.breederspremium.com/info.html

it seems to be saying
xanthophylls -->yellow
melanin -->black/brown
carotenoids -->orange/red
phycocyanin -->blue

The article ends by saying natural red colorant is from astaxanthin which is also an anti-oxidant which is ten times stronger than beta carotene and a hundred times stronger than vitamin E.

Maybe astaxanthin is the answer?

[gnatster]

My little experiment with Cherry Shrimp color has been to isolate this pair in their own tank. I am interested to see how the young looks and if colorations like that can be kept up with good husbandry as well as breeding. These seem to have the genetic potential for intense coloration.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/files/1/7/3/DSCN1677_original.jpg

[Walter]

My little experiment with Cherry Shrimp color has been to isolate this pair in their own tank. I am interested to see how the young looks and if colorations like that can be kept up with good husbandry as well as breeding. These seem to have the genetic potential for intense coloration.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/files/1/7/3/DSCN1677_original.jpg

Genetic potential for intense colour? It's already intensed coloration! :joking:

[gnatster]

Genetic potential for intense colour? It's already intensed coloration!

Yes they are, the question I have is will their offspring have the same coloration, or at least have the potential if properly cared for. Thats why I have this pair isolated in their own tank. I am looking to see if I can reliably produce offspring with these traits.

Always interested as to what others have learned, I've only been working on Cherry Shrimp breeding for a year now. In that time this is the first pair I ahve been very happy with where both sexes show the intense red and the well defined stripe down the back.

Maybe I am creating a new variety Neocaridina denticulata sinensis "gnatster" lol :rolleyes: lol

[gary35111]

lol Hi Gnatster! Your Cherry Red Shrimps are so beautiful! Hey, I got a better name for this "new species", Call them "Ruby Gnatster". Sound good? :joking: Anyway, buddy... did you...colour-edit the picture?

Btw, guys, how do you differtiate male and female for CRS? Cherry shrimp seems easy as females is usually bigger and have noticeable "gap" at their abdomen. But CRS? :) I got a pair of CRS and 5 cherry shrimps ( I think 3 or 4 of the cherry are females), will try to add more CRS in due time (when I get my paid :p ). Also, is it possible for CRS and cherry to cross-breed?

Gary.

[gnatster]

Hi Gnatster! Your Cherry Red Shrimps are so beautiful! Hey, I got a better name for this "new species", Call them "Ruby Gnatster". Sound good? Anyway, buddy... did you...colour-edit the picture?

Thanks, the female she starting to show a yellow saddle, looking forward to her getting berried up.

I did nothing to the picture, shot with Nikon Coolpix 3200 at -1.0 exposure setting, no flash. The lights above the tank are a mix, 1ea 4200K and 6500K

[NanoDave]

is it possible for CRS and cherry to cross-breed?


There are some shrimps in Henry's shop (near aquastar) he claims is cross breed of crystal and cherry and he labeled them as Cherry Crystal (to me they look like cherry). Can go take a look since you're in sg.. :)

[simcb]

Btw, guys, how do you differtiate male and female for CRS?
Gary.
You may want to look at FruitPie's article on sexing
http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=14

I guess the most obvious feature of a female CRS is its "rounded" head whereas a male has a more "tampered" head.

Secondly if the CRS is already sexually mature, you should be able to see a saddle across the female head-body like a female cherry.



Also, is it possible for CRS and cherry to cross-breed?
Gary.

Theoretically its impossible for them to cross. I have tried keeping Diamonds and cherries together for so long, i have yet to see any hybrid offsprings.