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Thread: Bacteria problem. Help!

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    Unhappy Bacteria problem. Help!

    A week ago I received 12 oebt. A couple of them have holes in the side of their carapax. I've read the article on bacterial infections but I'm curious if anyone has any tips or tricks to cure this particular problem. Tank is 11.4 gallons (43 liters) ph is 7.2 gh4 kh 0-1 filtration is an air driven sponge filter and small powerhead for circulation. Any advice is welcomed and appreciated.

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    You can try pussy willow bark.

    There is a thread on here somewhere about bacterial infections, use the search feature and you should be able to find it.
    When i die make sure my wife sells my shrimp for what they are worth, not what i told her they are worth.

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    Keep an eye on them because it could be parasitic with bacterial being the secondary problem .

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    Well I couldn't find a thread dealing with my specific problem but I did find some useful information. I will look for willow bark and I have alder cones that I will add when I get home and there is already Indian almond leaves in the tank. I also found a thread on feeding garlic due to it's antibacterial and anti fungal properties. Any thoughts on that?

    Thanks for the heads up mark. They are definitely under close observation.

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    Hi whizzle,

    I just went through a bacterial infection a couple of weeks ago with OEBTs also. I was able to knock out the problem but the method I used is a bit drastic for many folks. At first I tried to use natures remedies with Indian Almond Leaves. It did not clear it up but it did slow it down, so I went with Seachem ParaGuard. I have over 125 OEBTs, about 30 adults and the rest are juvies to tiny newborns. I know the approx. number due the fact that I just tore down my 26g long and moved all of the OEBTs over to a 7g plastic tub while the tank cycles. First I would like to thank Imke for advise with the water changes and leading me to Alysa who shared her experience on using ParaGuard on her shrimps. The info is a bit long but I would like to share my experience, so perhaps this will help you somehow.

    I started having mystery deaths every other day approx. a month ago. I also noticed that only a hand full of females were getting berried and I saw only handful of young and no newborns. Over the past year and half my OEBTs were always exploding with young. I noticed that a couple of shrimps looked milky and some were losing legs and antennae. I also noticed that when I fed, the shrimp ball they lump up in was smaller and smaller every time. Well during the treatment with Almond leaves I still kept having deaths, not a lot like a crash but one here and there and they started to add up. I finally got frustrated and felt that short of a total tank break down (which I did anyways last night haha!) I had to either watch the colony die off slowly or go for broke. I went for broke with chemical treatment!

    I treated the tank with full dose of Seachem Paraguard for 5 days. Now ParaGuard is not considered invert or plant safe even by Seachem. And I did 60% to 70% water changes every other day instead of daily to let the ParaGuard do its thing.

    Day 1... I dose 50% of recommended dosage per bottle instruction to see how the shrimps would react. I took a 1 gallon pitcher and filled it with tank water and added the ParaGuard. I then did a fast drip into the tank (more like a slow stream) that took about 30 minutes. I was to chicken to just dump the ParaGuard into the tank, besides I figured it would give the shrimps a better chance to adapt to the meds. I waited an hour and saw that the shrimps were acting normal, so I then added another 50% dose to make a full dose treatment for my tank. In my case I have a 26g long with approx. 20g of water, taking into account the substrate and rock and the fact that its not filled to the rim. I added a total of 10mL, 5mL the first time and another 5mL an hour later.

    Day 2.... Big water change and full dose of ParaGuard via drip from a pitcher. So 10mL in one shot with no noticeable ill effect on the shrimps. All acted normal even the sick looking ones.

    Day3.... Full dose ParaGuard. No water change. I rounded up 3 sick OEBTs that looked to be in advance infection and placed them in a floating breeder box. I did not want them to die and then get dragged off to some place were I won't be able to see them while the rest chow down on them. Many of the ones that were looking sick a couple of days ago seemed to clear up and regain normal color.

    Day 4... Big water change and full dose ParaGuard. All shrimps acted normal but the 2 of the 3 in the breeder box were just too far gone, so I destroyed them.

    Day 5... Full dose ParaGuard. All shrimps acting normal and no sign of any sick in the main tank. The remaining shrimp in the box died. It was just to weak it seems. I did one last big water change the next day.

    All was well for the next two weeks until I starting having mystery deaths of healthy looking shrimps and I also noticed that one shrimp was showing signs again of bacterial infection. I'm guessing the treatment was to short or I just didn't do a big enough water change of no less than 80%. One interesting thing I did notice is that my stem plants got a growth boost during the treatment. I don't dose any ferts in my shrimp tanks. But I was informed that one of the main ingredients in ParaGuard is the same as one of the main ingredients in Excel. I lost no plants, not even my Crypts that are notorious for melting. I have a couple of guesses that my bacteria problem was caused by a mistake that I made without know at the time. And other factors that might have led to my mysterious deaths on healthy looking OEBTs.

    1) When I broke down my 10g to prep it for my BKKs and RWs, I transferred some of the AS1 over to my 26g long. I'm guessing the bacteria was of a different strain and in such large numbers (approx. enough to cover 1/4 of the tank) in the used AS1 that my oebts started dropping since they really don't have an immune system. This might have caused my bacteria problem.

    2) I might have started a reaction with capping off the fluorite black sand in my 26g with AS1 from the 10g. With the old sand at the bottom there must have been a large number of dead micro critters and bacteria of sorts that it cause some kind of Anaerobic bacteria dead spots. And the MTS would from time to time release some of that as they dig and any shrimp in the area was toast. Any shrimp that did not die after being exposed, became sick which lead to a bacteria problem eventually. The reason for this second guess is that I also noticed that most of my MTS disappeared for some time and any on the top substrate retreated into their shells. I lost several around the same time I was losing shrimps.

    3) I might have introduced the bacteria problem when I added new shrimps. I introduced some yellow shrimps to the 26g a couple of months before I started to have problems. But I only notice 1 healthy yellow shrimp die during the mystery deaths. And it died in the area of the tank were I topped off with AS1 from the 10g.

    These are all guesses and I'm sure it could have been something else. But I'm leaning more towards #2, which lead me to break down the tank and removed all of the substrate. Tank is now cycling with new substrate that should not take too long since I went with Mr. Aquasoil, which I don't not notice any ammonia spike on my 10g. I hope that this long winded info helps you some how. Best of luck

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    Thank you for that very informative post. Do you think that if you had done larger water changes during treatment it would have fixed the problem permanently? Or do you think it was the anaerobic pockets that caused the second outbreak? I would really like to avoid breaking the tank down as I just did this not too long ago due to a massive hair algea outbreak.

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    I believe that if I had done no less then 80% water change along with deep siphoning of the substrate where I topped off with AS1, things might have been different. I also think that anaerobic pockets might have caused the second outbreak. Anaerobic pockets are a strong guess for my mysterious deaths from healthy looking shrimps. Seems like your tank is fine and your bacteria problem came with your new shrimps. If you have a spare tank, I would round up the OEBTs and treat them for bacteria infection. Any that are to far gone will not make it, weather you try natures remedies or decide to go with chemicals. If you have other shrimps in your tank, then the whole tank will need to be treat with which ever method you decide to take. But the key I believe is doing no less then 80% WC daily just to be on the safe side. 11.4 g should not be to much trouble doing large WC daily. Good luck

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    I don't have a spare tank and I also have blue bees in the tank so I'll have to treat the whole tank. The shrimp are acting normal and I haven't had any deaths yet (knocks on wood ) just a couple of them have holes in their carapax. I will have to wait until Tuesday to start water changes as the lfs where I get my water is closed for the weekend. Thanks for the very useful info and I will update this thread with any progress good or bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Keep an eye on them because it could be parasitic with bacterial being the secondary problem .
    This.

    Now the question is whether to use Panacur or ParaGuard.

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