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Thread: Help! Red bees are all dying!:-(

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    Exclamation Help! Red bees are all dying!:-(

    As some of you know, I have recently received some new shrimp (http://www.shrimpnow.com/forum/show...irst-2733.html).

    Now, these shrimp have been dying one by one - I have now 3 out of 8 pieces left. This is really sad!- but somehow I understand because they are new - eventhough I don't know precisely why they are dying.

    But what's worse is that all my C grades that I have had in this tank for a very long period, breeding and everything, are dying away hastily too!!! This started after I introduced the new shrimp! So now all my shrimp are dying and I just want to cry that's how sad it is:-( It's such a big disappointment.

    Of course I'm quite desperate to save the rest of them so please help me with every idea you've got why this is all of a sudden going entirely wrong!

    Temp. is about 23 degrees, there are only 4 small corydoras in the tank and then different shrimp species, by far mostly red bees. A drop test says that pH is somewhere between 7 and 8 - which I know is high, especially because I suspect that the water is fairly hard. BUT my C grades have been thriving in this for a very long time so something else must be wrong.
    Tank is 54 litres, I add a little micronutrient every now and then but the shrimps are used to this too. I think maybe there were about 50 shrimp in the tank when I added the 8 new shrimp - can this really create a ammonia spike??!

    Of course I've changed some water several times but the shrimp keep dying. Everyday I pick up 1-3 shrimp - and the rest must have been eaten. I see no sign of illness on the dead shrimp that I know of. They are just dead.
    I've been away for 3 days but that shouldn't be enough to starve them and besides they keep dying now that they get food. Both young and old shrimp and females carrying eggs die...

    *sigh* They die, die, die - and I don't know what to do!!!

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    Hi Marya,

    I'm sorry to hear that your shrimps are dying.

    50 or 60 shrimps in a tank of 54 litres should not create an ammonia spike.
    I have 300 (maybe some more) CRS in 60 liters and they do fine.
    Only if you feed too much or the filtration doesn't work properly, then the water conditions may become worse.

    If you have hard water with high ph level then maybe it's difficult for the new Red Bees to acclimatize in their new home. Especially if they were kept in completely different water conditions before. Red Bees, especially the higher grades, are often bred in soft and quite acid water and then sometimes they die when they are introduced into a tank with hard water and higher ph level.
    That could be one of the reasons why your new shrimps die.

    That your older CRS die after the new Red Bees were introduced into their tank, can be caused by bacteria which the new shrimps brought into the tank. Those need not to bee deadly bacteria but only bacteria that your older shrimps hadn't been used to have in their tank.
    Shrimps and fish in a tank live in their very own little world with their own bacteria strains. If they are faced to a new kind of bacteria their immune system has to adapt to the new bacteria strains. And that sometimes kills them even if the new bacteria are not dangerous for other shrimps.
    I only know a German site that has some information about that theme. It's about fish but probably it's the same with shrimps.
    Maybe the translation by Google can be understood although that automatic translation is not perfect:
    http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl...ensterben.html
    Perhaps that can help to understand why shrimps or fish can die when new shrimps or fish are introduced to their tank.

    I wish you can save the rest of your shrimps.

    Peter

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    Hi Peter,
    Thank you so much for your very kind and detailed reply! It means a lot to me when you guys in here help me.

    I hadn't thought about the different bacteria... it sounds very reasonable, I think. It would explain why my C grades all of a sudden die away so quickly. If this bacteria thing is the real deal then my shrimps have sort of swopped bacteria and by this "hurt" each other. And then of course the new shrimps have to adapt to hard water as you say.

    The question is, what should I do?
    Can one never put shrimps together in this way? Then how do people buy/introduce new shrimps for their breeding programmes?

    I feel defeated and pessimistic...:-/ But I know I'll just get stubborn in a couple of days and want to buy more new shrimps and the fight will go on. But I just don't see my way out of this if I can't "combine" shrimp.

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    Hi Marya,

    the different bacteria strains are only one of several possible reasons for the dying of your shrimps. And luckily it doesn't happen always if one introduces new shrimps to a tank. In fact it is quite rare that the old shrimp population is killed by bacteria that come with new tankmates but sometimes it happens.
    So next time when you buy new shrimps everything might go well.
    I don't know if an antibacterial healing like Sera Bactopur, Tetra GeneralTonic or a similar medicine is useful in this case. Those antibacterial medicines kill dangerous bacteria but they definetely also kill tho good bacteria in the filter and gravel. And I'm not sure if they contain any chemicals that can be dangerous for shrimps. Not every chemical for fish is also suitable for shrimps. So maybe things can become worse if you use an antibacterial healing.
    I just looked into the medicine list of the German "Garnelenforum". It says that Sera Bactopur and Tetra GeneralTonic is not dangerous for shrimps. But I'd suggest to be very careful with any medicine in a shrimp tank.
    I don't know what to advise. Perhaps someone else here can tell if he/she has any experence with using antibacterial healing on shrimps. I have never used it.

    And it's not sure if the different bacteria strains really are the reason for your shrimps' death. There are several other possible reasons.
    Did you change anything in the tank before the dying began? Any new plants, new roots or decoration for example? Did you use a new fertilzer?
    Or did you feed vegetables? Vegetables often contain pesticides which are deadly for shrimps even in very small quantities. I know several people who lost all their shrimps after feeding peppers and similar vegetables.

    One more question: Do the shrimps change their colour before they die? I don't mean after their death, because thats usual that they get a different color when they are dead. But if they are discoloured before they die, then it could be a sign for an illness. For example, do they look "milky" inside?

    I hope some other members are also going to give their advice and together we can stop the shrimps dying.

    Peter

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    Again, thank you, Peter.

    While we wait for others I can reply that no, my shrimp do not change color. I just picked up the recent dead shrimp (a new one) to night and it was so sad because I thought it was alive; it just sat there on the gravel looking perfectly normal, beautiful white and red colors. And then when some other shrimp and fish swam into it gently I realised it had just died because it didn't move at all...:-/ Then I picked it up to inspect it closely. Now it has begun to change colour into that unmistakedly pink/orange dead tone. Shell looks perfect.

    As for new things: I added a banana leaf and some shredded seemandelbaumblat (in a "tea bag") that came with the new shrimps. But then when all my shrimps started dying I removed these things again. As we know this didn't make any difference and I've changed a lot water since then.

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    Hi, I would not dare to add any fresh leave into a tank of shrimps, remember most of the time, only old brown leaves are recommended to be added as the enzymes and chemicals in the leave is inactivated over time by oxidation in the air and sun and when the leaves have turn really brown and dried then we know it is safe to be added into the tank. Have you been adding banana leaf all the time before? Is it fresh? I am not familiar with the other thing that you add in your tank.
    Yes, new bacteria strains can account for the death in your tank but I believe an ammonia spike may still have cause the death in your tank. You say you have been away for 3 days? During that time, is someone else looking after your tank? If one shrimp dies during that time, in a matter of hours if it is not removed, ammonia will start seeping into the water and this may cause another shrimp to die and if it is not removed, more ammonia will seep into the water and you can see it is a vicious cycle. Since your tank is quite populated, unless you have a super powerful filter with a huge area for nitrifying bacteria, ammonia can build up quite quickly and cause a spate of deaths..... As for bacteria infections, it is also a real possibility, I use to have fishes few years back and I remember I always have to quarantine the new fishes in a separate tank for 1 to 2 weeks, only if there is no signs of disease or death, then I will add the new fishes into the tank, not doing so invariably always result in a new outbreak of disease in my fishtank, it may be the same with shrimps but I am not really certain since I have shrimps only for 7 months now.... Just my thoughts

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    i wonder if it could be a calcium defcientcy? my shimp would die if there wasn't enough calcium in their diet. they would then shed and wouldn't be able to survive the environment...just a thought

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    Marya, i feel for u about those dead shrimps. Hope that its the last one. I had experienced my shrimps death for no good reason. Was the shrimps itself come from a good breeder? And it can deal to the water they used are different in some way. I had experienced it myself, that those new shrimps i bought all die in just 3 days. Lucky my other shrimps was not affected. I hope is not really ammonia spike. It can be costly... What i did was change my tank water and remove the dead shrimps. Shrimp hobby is difficult in someway. Try not to add in new things for now. If u are not sure will those things do harm to your shrimps. Dont add it into your tank. I m still learning each and everyday. Wish u luck.

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    Seemandelbaumblat is almond leaf I found out:-) I've only put in brown leaves.

    Thank you all! It's really nice when someone understands how I feel - I don't know that many people that care about shrimp in "real life". It's really frustrating when shrimps just die and you can do nothing.

    h00t: I don't believe it is calcium deficiency because my water is quite hard and my C grades have beem thriving in this for a long time...

    I shrimp: Thank you for your compassion. I do the same thing now, I change some water every day and I remove dead shrimp when I see them.

    milt: you may be right! I haven't been able to remove dead shrimp during these days. And my filter is not very big. Maybe it should be bigger. I just didn't think that one dead shrimp would cause ammonia spike, I thought it needed a lot more dead material to create a spike... but maybe you are right. But if it's only ammonia the dying should have stopped some days ago because I've changed water. Maybe it's a combination of ammonia and bacteria?

    *sigh* I just didn't see this coming... I was expecting some new shrimp to die but never did it occur to me that I could wipe out all of my shrimp this way...:-/

    Still 3 new shrimp to go and about 10, max 15 C grades...

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    I shrimp: Yes, I was told that my new shrimp had genes from ebi-ten. They should be real Japanese red bees. And I think they do look really nice. I also think they were kept in more soft and acid water and I think I acclimatised them too quickly.

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