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Thread: Can natural Black bee shrimp + Black bee shrimp breed Crystal black ?

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    Default Can natural Black bee shrimp + Black bee shrimp breed Crystal black ?

    Hi everyone ..

    Just a question about breeding ..

    I am going to start with what seems to be Black Bee natural shrimp, they look similar to crystal back shrimp but without the 4 dots on the tail and the white bands are more like a translucent yellow, also the black areas are more brownish black than solid black bands ... the first band on the head is translucent ...

    Being new to the hobby I thought it be best to start with a hardier less inbreed shrimp.
    My question is .. can I breed these black bee shrimp to eventually produce black crystals?

    Black bee + black bee = can it produce Crystal black bee even if very few ...
    or
    black bee + crystal red = black crystal, red crystal, black bee ?
    or
    do i just need to start with Black Crystals ??

    Thanks in advance ...

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    I am not sure if people have seen this chart before, but I came across it, so here it is ..
    shrimptable.jpg

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    New Member lander's Avatar
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    hello Leon,

    I have tested a few years ago,
    when you have natural black bee shrimps, they miss the white gen that you find in the crystal black shrimp.
    So when you cross bee shrimp x bee shrimp than you have only bee shrimps.
    But if you buy bee shrimps is there a possibility that the shrimps have been crossed with Crystals and so they have the white gen and they are hetrozygoot.

    black bee x black bee = black bee
    black bee x crystal red = black bee,crystal red and crystal black.

    it is difficult to say what is the best if i dont know what you want to reach with it.

    Greets Lander

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    Quote Originally Posted by lander View Post
    hello Leon,

    I have tested a few years ago,
    when you have natural black bee shrimps, they miss the white gen that you find in the crystal black shrimp.
    So when you cross bee shrimp x bee shrimp than you have only bee shrimps.
    But if you buy bee shrimps is there a possibility that the shrimps have been crossed with Crystals and so they have the white gen and they are hetrozygoot.

    black bee x black bee = black bee
    black bee x crystal red = black bee,crystal red and crystal black.

    it is difficult to say what is the best if i dont know what you want to reach with it.

    Greets Lander
    Hmm

    Thanks so much for your response .. I do not believe the batch of Black bee I got have any trace of the white bands or gene.
    So thank you for confirming what I thought would be the case ...

    BlackbeeX blackbee = black bee .... and only if I am extremely lucky a mutation may occur .. or may never occur with white.

    I was hoping to get my black bee colony changed into Crystal blacks ...
    So I think the best route would be to do

    Black beeX crystal red and hope for crystal blacks ... and keep breeding them ...

    Here is one of the Black bee .. clear black bands , but with translucent bands in between .. not a great pic sorry ... the first band is translucent ...
    Hopefully crossing with a crystal red will produce some with white in them ...

    20150205_181509.jpg

    Crystal red
    20150205_181236.jpg

    I am still a new hobbyist .. love hearing from the experience community ... this by far is much more interesting than just keeping fish in a tank ... ...
    it is exciting to see what is possible with your colonies ... not just keeping them healthy, but also seeing what future generations of a batch will look like ...

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    New Member lander's Avatar
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    when you cross black bee x cr you can have cb but the color is brown and no black
    but if you look genetic is this an other story what about the color
    i will explane it very simple but the reality is more than that
    let we start thinking your black bee have only the gen of a black bee: the brown color, no other gen (homozygoot)
    your crystal red have only gen of crystal red :white gen and red gen (homozygoot)
    when you cross the crystal red with the black bee than you have in the offspring F1 red,brown and white gen.( hetrozygoot)
    than you can see that the the crystal black that you have of the f1 more brown is than black. this is because the red gene have a influence on the brown color.
    if you select the most dark brown and most white F1 and you across them, than you can have in the F2 more darker brown and more white.
    you can select and across to F3 and again to F4. after F4 you must stop and across with new blood because the genes are to small.

    i hope that you can understand my explanation a litle bit (my english is not so good)

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    Thanks Lander ...

    Yes ... I can follow .. sorry for the late reply.

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    Lander .. last night I took a closer look at the black bees I have ...
    they have been with me now for nearly 3-4 weeks ... I have noticed that all their colors are coming in stronger .. before from the post the shells look brown and translucent ... now most of them are black .. and even some specs of white are showing .. I will try to get a clear photo ... it maybe possible that as you had said they are a generation that may have the white hetrozygoot gen.

    I posted else where, that my black bee's although purchased at the same time as my Crystal reds have nearly doubled the size(bought at same time and near the same size) .. they eat more and scavenge a lot more than their cousins.
    They are in separate tanks at the moment until they mature ..

    If the black bee's do have the hetrozygoot gen of white ..

    1. how can you be sure ?
    2. how do you actually get them to mate with a crystal red ... .. seperate 1 female and 2 males, or 2 males and 1 female .. and does it matter which one is the black bee and which is the crystal red ??
    I guess I am asking if the babies take more from the mother or the father?
    If I do breed the first batch successfully ... than technically they all should be F1 .. i should avoid putting them back with the original parents and have the new batch breed with themselves or have the breed further with another crystal red . ( the babies should be placed in the black bee tank or crystal red tank .. or by themselves )

    From my Crystal red I also have one that changed colors .. it is now mostly black and white ... kinda like a crystal black ... should this little guy be the first one to breed with a black bee as it already is showing some black and white ..?


    soryy for all the q's ... genetics are a bit confusing too me
    Last edited by Leon1975; 16th Feb 2015 at 09:33 AM. Reason: placing the babies???

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    New Member lander's Avatar
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    Leon,

    That the collors be stronger is maybe a reason that they are hetrozygoot and cross with a crystal but its not sure. Its not possible to know100% of they are pure black bee's.

    if you cross them with crystal red than you must know that the male give more gene to the offspring than the female. So if you want crystal black to cross black bee x crystal red: take 1 black bee male and 2 crystal red female. The results are more brown than black, but than you can select the most dark Crystals of the F1 and cross them .
    The black gen is dominant and the red is reccesif. that is the reason that you have a crystal red and he change to crystal black. your crystal reds are hetrozygoot and have a black gen.

    genetics are not easy but i now a little bit off this things and i'am be happy that i can help you.

    greets Lander

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    Leon1975 (25th Feb 2015)

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    Shrimpy Lover hyoushoku's Avatar
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    CRS carries CBS's gene. Hence, if you breed the exact wild variant of Caridina Cantonesis (there are 4 to 5 variants, if I don't remember wrongly), the first batch of offspring will look like the wild shrimp (usually it will go for low common denominator). However, the second generation (be it breed with CRS or wild shrimp), some of them will look more like CBS than wild shrimp.
    shrimpydaddy.com

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    Leon1975 (25th Feb 2015)

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    Thanks Lander and Hyoushoku

    Once they get old enough Ill see if I can do cross them ...

    I did notice my black bee also have the white gene in them .. lately they are starting to fill in the transparent color into white ...
    its patchy but it is there...

    So once they reach adult, which bears my next question ...

    how easy is it to tell the difference between female and male ... and when is a good time to separate them to breed.

    as currently my black bee and crystal red are in separate tanks ..

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