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Thread: My TBS and problems.

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    Member Vadim Art's Avatar
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    Default My TBS and problems.

    TBS shrimps do reproduce very slowly, the purchased population and young shrimps gradually dies within 4-6 months. From 3 newborns Red Ruby only one survived. At the same time in that tank CRS shrimps are growing and reproducing.

    Equipment : Tank – 120 l,
    Substrate: ADA Malaya,
    Filter:
    EHEIM ECCO PRO 300 2036 with Eheim Substrat Pro (3 l),
    EHEIM ECCO PRO 300 2036 with ZEOvit® (2 l) and Matrix (1 l),
    Undegravel filter,
    Hang on filter with Purigen (200 ml).

    Water Conditioning and Management:
    RO + ion exchange resins + Bee-Shrimp Mineral GH + BioDigest.

    Water parameters in tank :
    gH – 5-6,
    pH – 5.5
    NO3 -10,
    NO2-0,
    PO4-0,2.

    I have more plants and use micro fertilizer - Mikro Spezial - Flowgrow (Aqua Rebell) and Seachem Equilibrium (K+Ca+Mg) + 1-2 h. daily CO2.
    Thanks for attention, your feedback and advise is highly appreciated.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Shrimpy Lover hyoushoku's Avatar
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    Hi Vadim Art,

    Let's continue our discussion in your own thread.

    It seems like you have the state of the art for almost everything in your tank.

    Based on what you described, I discover a few things suspicious.

    1. How much CO2 are you pumping and is it 24 hours or only lights on? What do you use to monitor and control the amount of CO2 being pumped?
    2. ADA substrate is not designed for under gravel filter. It is designed to slowly release tannin & humic plus fertilizer. You may want to turn off your under gravel filter for a while. In addition, I usually keep a bit of organic on my substrate in order to promote bacteria growth.
    3. pH 5.5 is quite low (I do keep my Tibee in this pH range). However, your gH may be a bit low for this pH. From your picture, not sure is it I am seeing wrong, the shrimps' shell is not thick and shiny. Try to increase it to 6.5 to 7.
    4. ZeoVit is designed for Saltwater, hence I'm not sure is it usable or helpful in freshwater. Based from my understanding, Zeolite exhaust very fast. With so much plants, generally, you will not get Ammonia spike that can kill your shrimp. I don't recommend you using Zeolite for this case.
    5. [This may not related] Do you add Macro fertilizer? Your NO3 is high when compared to the low PO4 level plus Mikro Spezial only adds very little potassium.
    6. I see that you are using Salty Shrimp mineral. This mineral adds a little bit of KH. Since your tank has been running awhile and you are running undergravel filter, your substrate may lose some buffering capability. Have you test your kH recently?

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    Member Vadim Art's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoushoku View Post
    Hi Vadim Art,

    Let's continue our discussion in your own thread.

    It seems like you have the state of the art for almost everything in your tank.

    Based on what you described, I discover a few things suspicious.

    1. How much CO2 are you pumping and is it 24 hours or only lights on? What do you use to monitor and control the amount of CO2 being pumped?
    2. ADA substrate is not designed for under gravel filter. It is designed to slowly release tannin & humic plus fertilizer. You may want to turn off your under gravel filter for a while. In addition, I usually keep a bit of organic on my substrate in order to promote bacteria growth.
    3. pH 5.5 is quite low (I do keep my Tibee in this pH range). However, your gH may be a bit low for this pH. From your picture, not sure is it I am seeing wrong, the shrimps' shell is not thick and shiny. Try to increase it to 6.5 to 7.
    4. ZeoVit is designed for Saltwater, hence I'm not sure is it usable or helpful in freshwater. Based from my understanding, Zeolite exhaust very fast. With so much plants, generally, you will not get Ammonia spike that can kill your shrimp. I don't recommend you using Zeolite for this case.
    5. [This may not related] Do you add Macro fertilizer? Your NO3 is high when compared to the low PO4 level plus Mikro Spezial only adds very little potassium.
    6. I see that you are using Salty Shrimp mineral. This mineral adds a little bit of KH. Since your tank has been running awhile and you are running undergravel filter, your substrate may lose some buffering capability. Have you test your kH recently?
    Thank you very much for your answer!

    1.I add CO2 only when the lights are on and control the amount with pH controller.
    2.I've read your comments and stared increase gH. Thus a question arises about sources for calcium. Which of them it's better to use, or to simply increase Salty Shrimp mineral the dosage?
    3.I interchange Zeolite not at least once a month. Should i remove it at all ?
    4.I have started adding potassium (K2S04) 1 mg/liter daily.
    5. kH-0.

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    1. If you control by pH, how do you know what pH give you how much CO2? Water's pH fluctuate as more stuffs leech into it, thus gauging the CO2 level by pH is not accurate.
    2. Since you are using Salty Shrimp's mineral, you an just increase the amount. Just watch out for kH rises.
    3. ZeoVit may not be the main problem but I think you undergravel filter with ADA substrate are one of the problem. I will suggest remove the Zeovit and stop the undergravel filter.
    4. You still need to add phosphate. Having Nitrate of 10ppm is not normal for shrimp tank. Either your Macro nutrients are not balance or your undergravel filter is causing it to leech more organic into the water column.
    5. If you are using Salty Shrimp, you will need to continuous monitor your kH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoushoku View Post
    4. You still need to add phosphate. Having Nitrate of 10ppm is not normal for shrimp tank. Either your Macro nutrients are not balance or your undergravel filter is causing it to leech more organic into the water column.
    - Suppose I measure Redox, what it gives to me? Will it show if there is an excess of organic in the water?
    - I have replaced ZeoVit on Matrix.

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    Reading Redox has to be based on trend and not absolute value. If you starts seeing Redox going do without adding any antioxidant (potassium, calcium, magnesium and ascorbic acid salts and anti-chlorine agent), then you are accumulating more organics.

    I still think too much CO2 and the substrate filter may kill the shrimp. Sometime when my CO2 are too much, I will have casualty. The best way to look at CO2 level are still looking at the plant's behaviour. Another CO2 too much killing shrimp common scenario is during water change. If you are using pH controller and when you are changing water, the water based pH is at 7. Thus, your CO2 will keep running until it reaches the desired level. Do you find that your shrimp die on the same day or within a couple of days after you change water?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoushoku View Post
    Do you find that your shrimp die on the same day or within a couple of days after you change water?
    About adding CO2.
    I think I did not precisely described it. CO2 is added in a small dosage.
    Only when the lights are on (5-6 h), and no more than 1-2 bubble per minute. It does not affect pH level practically.
    I have a controller, but in fact, it works as a monitor. For change water, I use water with properties close to the water in aquarium. pH is about 6.2. I change no more than 10% at once.

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    One to two bubble per second for 100L tank should not be a problem. I'm running 8 bps. So I guess this suspicion is out.

    Now back to the GH and also the substrate filter. GH will just have to wait a couple of weeks to see the result. For substrate filter, you can see the manual comes with the ADA substrate stated explicitly that it should not be used with substrate filter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoushoku View Post
    For substrate filter, you can see the manual comes with the ADA substrate stated explicitly that it should not be used with substrate filter.
    I've choose this ADA Malaya because it almost organic free.
    Back to the GH.
    MAYBE change Salty Shrimp mineral on Seachem Replinish or something else? What do you think about calcium gluconate as a source of calcium?

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    Some people dislike Gluconate due to it promotes bacteria bloom, however I think likewise. I personally likes more bacteria (all kinds) to be developed in shrimp tank. Seachem also use gluconate for their Iron supplement. As such, I think Calcium Gluconate is fine. Do note that Calcium Gluconate dissolve very slowly, hence it will make your water cloudy for a while. In this case, you better dose during lights out period or your tank will look hazy.

    On top of Calcium Gluconate, you can mix with Calcium Ascorbate too.

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