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wayne6442
23rd Mar 2012, 10:17 AM
Guys I need your help, I have a very dark wine/ chocolate colored female cherry shrimp. I was thinking about putting her in with a yellow male, or if i can get one a blue male ( both these colored cherries are just starting here in Australia and hard to get) Has anyone tried this cross before? and to what outcome?
Regards

lillith112
25th Mar 2012, 08:47 PM
Hi wayne6442, I have not tried this cross but I am going to attempt it myself very soon, I a vast cherry breeding population and have been thinking of crossing them with some blues, you never know it might make a purple cherry, how cool would that be lol.
Good luck and keep us updated on how you get on. :D
Julia.

Drakarian
25th Mar 2012, 10:14 PM
Hey wayne, assuming that your chocolate-wine shrimp has the same genetic lines as those we have in Singapore, chocolate shrimp, and that the yellow male and blue males you have are also same as those in Singapore and all three are breedable neocaridina, I would advise you to cross it with the blue male rather than the yellow male.

I'm basing what I said on the crosses I have made using my shrimp and assuming that your chocolate-wine shrimp will cross in much the same way as a painted fire red or fire red shrimp crosses. These are the results I got

female blue X male red = red and white rili f1
female blue X male orange = green-tinted yellow f1
female blue X male yellow = light brown f1, some with predominant red tints
yellow X red = brown f1, some with predominant red tints

Of course, there hasn't been any crosses of my green-tinted yellows back to the blues, oranges or the reds so I have no idea how such a yellow would react in this scheme. Also, these crosses appear to suggest that yellow and red crosses give up browns, hence my advice against the yellow cross. Orange neocaridina are available here hence I used them in the cross. Good luck with the cross and let us know the outcome!

wayne6442
26th Mar 2012, 10:26 AM
Hello Julia,
We are up against it here in Australia as far as these shrimp are concerned. They are an illegal import and can carry up to 18 months jail if you are caught bringing them in. lucky for us that there is no law against keeping them once they are in the country. Thanks to a very few brave people we now have Cherry shrimp,normal, Yellow and Sukura Reds (Yellow and Sukura reds are just coming available now), CBS/CRS, all very expensive and I have heard the rumor that there are some rili shrimp in the country but very very expensive.
My Brown Cherry has sprung from my cherry breeding colony and is just some natural color variation , How it got there I have no Idea,My breeders came from three different suppliers, I have contacted each one of these suppliers but none has had the browns as yet.( now they are all keen)Scouring all of the forums that I can find I see that there have been a few reported but no one is coming forward as to what happens if they back breed or cross breed with another color. possible they will revert back to the lovely normal cherry that we all admire and love.
I Am a little lucky because i purchased some Yellow cherries a month ago, so my first experiment will be to put my choc girl in with the yellows and let nature take it course. one never knows what will happen.I will also be purchasing some Sukura reds in the comming weeks(AU $60.00 each) so my second go will be to put her with one of these males, Then the fun will start keeping track of the different young, opens up a pandora's box but what fun.
I will keep you posted on where I get to. Good luck with your experiments. Keep intouch
Regards
Wayne

shrimp addict
26th Mar 2012, 12:35 PM
so you are saying sukura reds are worth some money because i have been selective breeding a dark red into my cherrys and now i have nearly got full red legs and bodys on males and females but yes there are many shrimps in Australia that are extremly expensive.

Cheers Jake

wayne6442
26th Mar 2012, 12:45 PM
Hi jake,Great work mate Sukura Reds are selling at LFS for $50.00 each in Qld.
regards

Drakarian
26th Mar 2012, 01:54 PM
Hey wayne, if this is the case, I would strongly advise against the cross with yellow as the colour will most likely be less intense once you breed it with yellow. This is mostly from experience. However, if you do get a nicely coloured f1 do let me know! ^^ Back cross with a red will simply propagate the brownish-red intense colouration.

wayne6442
26th Mar 2012, 03:14 PM
Thank you. I thought that if I breed her to a yellow ,and then the f1 back to a Sukura red or fire red it just might happen to broaden the gene pool a little and the f2 might throw a deeper brown to black, what do you think?

wayne6442
26th Mar 2012, 03:30 PM
Mate,
love your experiments, hope we can keep exchanging notes, But remember I Have only basic color stock available to me ,so i will be trying to get a wider gene pool together as I go try and make them stronger. I have started by breeding my cherries in the open with just normal light and a heater set at 23deg c in black tubs colors have improved greatly, i have not got enough yellows to attempt this yet but when i do outside they go.
Regards
Wayne

Drakarian
26th Mar 2012, 10:39 PM
Thank you. I thought that if I breed her to a yellow ,and then the f1 back to a Sukura red or fire red it just might happen to broaden the gene pool a little and the f2 might throw a deeper brown to black, what do you think?

Hey mate thanks! I'm just here to help as I was really bummed when I ended up with the so-called wild-type colouration, ie light-brown colour changing phenotype. Yes, I highly encourage the broadening of the gene pool. The difference in vitality of the shrimp is fairly obvious even with good food being provided.

Over here, the colour strains available are yellow, red, orange, blue and brown. As the water in my tanks always settle eventually to pH of 6.0 due to my soil, I have never been able to keep the browns, which require slightly alkaline conditions, alive or well enough to breed. I've noticed that reds are the ones who are most adaptable, followed by the oranges. Blues and yellows are significantly weaker, I always have trouble with them. However, crosses between the different strains almost always result in very healthy shrimp, the latest of which were the orange and blues. The resulting shrimp were very healthy and you can feel the difference when you net them. Hence I agree with you with regards to widening the gene pool.

However, I'm not sure if the breeding of reds and yellow will be able to give you a darker brown or black in the f2. It is likely that this might happen, if your yellow is of significantly strong dark colouration as well. However, the exact mechanisms of the "colour genes" interaction is unknown. What we do know is that if you cross a yellow and a red, the wild type colouration will appear, often times with a stronger red tint if you use a fire red, but otherwise anywhere from light green to dark brown to blue-brown depending on your water conditions and substrate.

Back-crossing this particular wild-type colouration to either a yellow or a red will most likely, according to others on this site, I have not attempted this myself, result in approximately half of the F2 taking on wild-type colouration and half of the F2 taking on whichever colour it was backcrossed with. However, this is if colouration is not sex-linked, which many suspect it to be. However the important thing to note is that of the half that take on either red or yellow, the colours will take on a range of intensity. Therefore you will get some deeper brown to black, might even be darker than your current wine-brown, or at most the same colour intensity as what you have.

These are assuming your brown follows the same kind of interaction with yellow. However once you have gotten your first cross, do let us know and if all goes well you might even have a new colour! Good luck ^^

By the way, some would backcross the F1 back to the wine-brown shrimp. To do this you need to have neutral pH that will maximise the growth of the offspring. Sorry for the wall of text.