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reefdive
1st Dec 2011, 01:58 AM
Seem's to be a lot of variation's in the intensity of color varient's of heterapoda . Is or can the same grading used for CRS be used ? It is very confusing when purchasing and you never know what you will end up with . Any way to standardize's this other than or in addition to trusting an individual's own integrity and honesty ? I would trust most of the people on here but that is not alway's the case and some of these shrimp's come in so small that you will not know what you have till you grow it out . I guess this could alway's be a problem but a grading system would at least keep honest people honest

blacksheep998
1st Dec 2011, 06:02 AM
There's no official grading system, but this might be a good start http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/74217-Grading-system-of-Cherry-to-Fire-Red-Shrimps

Basically, cherries are the lowest grade, then sakuras, then fire red, then either painted fire red or taiwan fire red. I'm not entirely clear if there's a difference between painted and taiwan fire reds.

As for other neocaridinas, very nicely colored yellows are sometimes called sakuras. And rili shrimp are often divided into low and high grade based on the color intensity and pattern.

reefdive
1st Dec 2011, 06:59 AM
That is a great post but I think it confirm's what I am asking that instead of a grading system you have different name's and all that is confusing without reading an article like you mentioned . It also does not address the other type's . I just wondered why the existing grading system could not be used or in fact may already be in use , for all the color's or varient's of heterapoda a , s , ss, sss, ssss actually I am not even sure of the CRS grade's . So instead of cherry , sakura , fire red you use a letter designation . It is clear these variation's are also coming out in rili , yellow , orange even white but to less of a degree . I see description's trying to break cherry or sakura into more than 1 grade , same with the fire red and it seem's easier to me to use 1 name and letter grade's to avoid the confusion . Of course reality make's me believe it may already be to late . That was the best breakdown of red heterapoda I have seen by the way nice post

Fento
1st Dec 2011, 07:31 AM
Yep, different names add more confusion, but IMHO we need them, because there are several tones of red.

The problem is that people don't agree to define them properly. In some sites you'll see "red fire" been used on 'normal' or poor coloured red cherrys, at other clasifications (as you could see at the previous link) "red fire" are almost the most red ones (except painted fire, wich are the best coloured). In my country people use to employ the term "sakura" for a full coloured red cherry, doesn't matter colour intensity or tone (now, there are yellow sakura, orange sakura... and so on) that's confusing.

I think it's not as easy as it seem, it should be a new clasification, but it's a hard task to do because there are different red heteropoda lines wich have slightly different shapes and tones of red.

If any of you are gonna buy any intense coloured heteropoda, don't trust it's names and ask for pictures, so you can check what you are paying for. Even this way you may have some surprises.

eviltrain
1st Dec 2011, 03:01 PM
for CRS, C-B-A-S-SS-SSS are more for pattern gradings.

imke_j
1st Dec 2011, 07:43 PM
Neocaridina have been considered inferior for a long time, and professional breeders (at least in my country) seriously are working on higher grades for a short time only. Most fresh impulses and neo shrimp come from Taiwan, like Rili, Orange shrimp and others. I have attached a list of the different types, however- only the reds have a grading for now.

5021
5022

Fento
1st Dec 2011, 08:12 PM
Thanks! now I understand the letter grading I've seen at some stores. This grading considers red tone, or just coverage?
I mean, for example... are red fire brigther than sakura or just better coloured (without transparences)? Could we talk about red fire discards as "sakura"?

imke_j
1st Dec 2011, 08:22 PM
Thanks! now I understand the letter grading I've seen at some stores. This grading considers red tone, or just coverage? I mean, for example... are red fire brigther than sakura or just better coloured (without transparences)? Could we talk about red fire discards as "sakura"?

The coloration of shrimp is either in the body inside, or on the exterior shell. The highest grade, the Painted Fire Red, has thick red coloration on the outside skeleton. So, it is both: the general impression of an intense coloration, as well as coloration in different 'layers'.

reefdive
1st Dec 2011, 10:37 PM
It appear's to me correct me if I am wrong that the letter grade is for the amount of red and white and how striking or attractive it is and that there are name's for the pattern's
for CRS, C-B-A-S-SS-SSS are more for pattern gradings.

reefdive
1st Dec 2011, 10:58 PM
If this is true also for the other color grade's and will it be possible in the future to have these grade's apply to the other color's ? I think I have seen this in the yellow and orange ( the 4 grade's ) . This make sense to me and then if a distinct pattern occor's that could also be given a name ( stripe's or line's ) . It would also appear that many of the red shrimp are being sold with the wrong name's and the subgrading within the catagory is either a marketing tool or from being unaware of the grading . It also appear's that the yellow and orange form's may not be bred yet to breed true and that there is variation or mixe's of the grade's being sold under the color name . It will be interesting to see what new mutation's can occur such as stripe's or line's on the back . These could be quite attractive in the higher grade's . Or am I just doing some wishful thinking ( a banded shrimp that will thrive in most all water condition's )
The coloration of shrimp is either in the body inside, or on the exterior shell. The highest grade, the Painted Fire Red, has thick red coloration on the outside skeleton. So, it is both: the general impression of an intense coloration, as well as coloration in different 'layers'.

Soothing Shrimp
4th Dec 2011, 07:02 AM
Yellows do breed true, and there is a line called neon yellow that has stripes down the back, but many people don't understand strains when breeding, so use wrong names.

My suspicion is if cherries were more money like the crs, people would be more careful and use grading appropriately. Because they are so cheap, many people feel they are a "throw away" shrimp to just get started on until better shrimp can be afforded- and thus not taken seriously. An unjust line of thinking in my opinion.

Lexinverts
4th Dec 2011, 09:24 AM
Yellows do breed true, and there is a line called neon yellow that has stripes down the back, but many people don't understand strains when breeding, so use wrong names.

I have seen backstripes in Cherries, Fire Reds, Painted Fire Reds, Yellows, Blues, and Orange Shrimp that I have kept.


My suspicion is if cherries were more money like the crs, people would be more careful and use grading appropriately. Because they are so cheap, many people feel they are a "throw away" shrimp to just get started on until better shrimp can be afforded- and thus not taken seriously. An unjust line of thinking in my opinion.

Neos are mostly single-colored, so with less contrast there is less "pattern" to grade.

The reason Neos haven't been worth as much money as CRS is because CRS have had nicer coloration and contrast, and they are more difficult to breed. Recently, some new lines like Fire Reds and Orange Fire Shrimp have emerged that do have really striking coloration. However, Neos will always be worth less money than CRS, because they are so much easier to breed and mass-produce.

Soothing Shrimp
4th Dec 2011, 10:11 AM
Blue cherries with stripes?

I agree stripes can be on any color, however the yellow neons are a specially bred strain for the presence of the stripe.

While I disagree about a "nicer coloration and contrast," I will agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Each has it's own positives. :)

Supply and demand is definitely at work. No question. Being easy to breed doesn't necessarily lower the price, however. Examples are the snowball and blue pearls, just to name two, which consistently command higher prices than cherries, though not to the price level as CRS.

However my argument was IF the cherries were more expensive (not why they are aren't), then people would take them more seriously.

Lexinverts
4th Dec 2011, 10:21 AM
Blue cherries with stripes?

Yes, I have had Blueberry Neos, and I currently have a Blue variant of Cherry shrimp that have a backstripe.


I agree stripes can be on any color, however the yellow neons are a specially bred strain for the presence of the stripe.

I've never heard of a special Yellow Neon bred for a backstripe. Sounds interesting.


While I disagree about a "nicer coloration and contrast," I will agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Each has it's own positives. :)

You disagree that RED and WHITE CRS have "nicer contrast" than Neos? I don't know of any Neos with contrast like a CRS.


Supply and demand is definitely at work. No question. Being easy to breed doesn't necessarily lower the price, however. Examples are the snowball and blue pearls, just to name two, which consistently command higher prices than cherries, though not to the price level as CRS.

Snowballs and Blue pearls are "dirt cheap" on Aquabid. They are a little more expensive because they haven't been around as long as cherries.


However my argument was IF the cherries were more expensive (not why they are aren't), then people would take them more seriously.

I'm just explaining why I think your argument is moot. For the aforementioned reasons, they NEVER will be as expensive as CRS, and probably will never have contrast like a red and white CRS, so the grading will probably not be as sophisticated.

Soothing Shrimp
4th Dec 2011, 10:09 PM
I seem to be repeating myself with the argument that IF they were as expensive as them, they would receive better attention/grading systems. The majority of Cherries do not contain 2 colors, but they do have different contrasts of coloration which is why I also believe a grading system would be helpful.

The rest isn't even worth debating.

Lexinverts
4th Dec 2011, 10:44 PM
I seem to be repeating myself with the argument that IF they were as expensive as them, they would receive better attention/grading systems. The majority of Cherries do not contain 2 colors, but they do have different contrasts of coloration which is why I also believe a grading system would be helpful.

The rest isn't even worth debating.

When I am talking about "contrast," I am referring to contrast on the same individual. Individual CRS and CBS have tremendous contrast because they have patterns of black and white and red and white on the same individual. Much of the grading system refers to these patterns. Because almost all Neos are single-colored, there is less pattern to grade, thus the grading system can only be in regard to intensity of coloration.

You're probably right that IF Neos were consistently as expensive as CRS more attention would be payed to grading. I'm just saying the argument is MOOT because it will not happen. Just like saying, IF Neos had contrast like a CRS or CBS, more attention would be payed to grading "patterns."

No offense intended--I'm just responding to your hypothesis. And I do like Neos very much. I have 6 different varieties right now.

Soothing Shrimp
5th Dec 2011, 09:55 AM
Sometimes it is hard to read emotional context in responses. Thank you for clearing that up. :)