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GunmetalBlue
28th Nov 2005, 01:14 PM
Hi everyone, wanted to share my C. "Bumblebees." :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/06BB108sig600W.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/25Bumblebee367600WBC.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/08BB218sig600W.jpg

Female:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/11BB232sig600W.jpg

Young male:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/12BB180sig600W.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/13BB195600W9.jpg

Have to continue on next post, think I had too many pics! lol

GunmetalBlue
28th Nov 2005, 01:16 PM
My Bumblebee finally had shrimplets last week! Pregnant female on the 24th day:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/17BB469Day24Eggs600WC.jpg

Day they are born:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/18BB497Day0Birth500W.jpg

Day 2:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/21BB526Day2Birth250H.jpg

Day 3:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/22BB557Day3Birth600WC.jpg

Some comments: The hatching took 27 days at temp between 75 - 78; average temp 77. It got really hot here, so had to run a fan for them. The shrimplets didn't do much for the first couple of days and so had me very worried, but finally saw them starting to eat on the 2nd and 3rd day, phew! I think they're going to be all right now. I've seen a total of 6 shrimplets, so it is a very low yield; the Bumblebees are not an easy shrimp to work with, at least here.

-GB

amber2461
28th Nov 2005, 01:32 PM
Yes, they are very difficult to breed and a low yield of shrimplets too ... but what a joy when one sees young ones in the tank :D

BlueEL
28th Nov 2005, 02:03 PM
Hey GunmetalBlue the pics are very sharp! Especially the pregnant one, you can see big eyes on the babies. I found its harder to sex bumble bee than cherries. How do you tell if its a male?

kenny
28th Nov 2005, 04:06 PM
Hi Gunmetalblue,
Congrats ! It's just great to see baby shrimps.

I used to keep them and only succeeded in keeping them alive after many tries. and only ONCE did i see the mama carrying eggs. Boy, was I on cloud nine. never did see the babies though :(

keep it up !

Symbiot
28th Nov 2005, 05:19 PM
What's the "difficult" part with breeding bumblebees?

and beautiful shots.... nice coloration on some of the shrimps!

kross
28th Nov 2005, 10:59 PM
GB, congrats on the shrimplets.... Nice bees (and algae, I'm serious! :D ) and great shots! :)

Cheers.......

GunmetalBlue
29th Nov 2005, 05:15 AM
Thanks for the congrats, everyone! :)

Marge - yes what a joy to see the shrimplets after worrying about them so much, but now I'm :happy2: :happy2: :happy2:

Hi BlueEl, as to telling the sexes, some are more obvious than others, but generally speaking the head area is chunkier and the bulkier shape seems to go straight into the body. I also look at the carapace hanging over the swimmerettes - the females have a longer "skirt" and tends to be rounded at the bottom; it helps cover and protect the eggs. The males generally have a racy, more streamlined appearance and are slimmer. The male's carapace hanging over the swimmerettes are more straight, or even follow the arch of the tail. When they're moving around, especially when trying to mate, they tend to hold up their tail proudly like stallions and the shrimp have a "checkmark" shape when they do that.

Kenny - same thing happened to me, the first batch of Bumblebees I got all died :( . I tried again, but this time changed a few things such as making sure the temp was lower and supplemented my water with a small part distilled/RO to bring the water hardness and pH down some. My tap water is pH 8.0, so I brought it down to about 7.7 (which really isn't all that much, they do better in lower pH than this) before getting the present batch of shrimp. Only one died this time, but maybe this group was hardier to begin with? Not sure, but I think keeping cooler temp especially helped. Hope you'll succeed in having some shrimplets in the future. :)

Symbiot, not sure why it's difficult, I notice in some parts of the world, people have no problems. Perhaps those people possibly have water conditions more favorable to the BB's, so it's less of an issue for them? Part of the problem in the U.S. is that most Bumblebees are wild-caught imported shrimp, so all the changes they go through to get here seems to be part of the hurdle, and they seem especially sensitive to any stress.

Kross - yes, I'm a serious algae grower! Good thing shrimp love algae... in fact algae problems were why I got started with the shrimp hobby in the first place - to help rid my algae. Ironically, now I try to grow algae on purpose. :D

-GB

spinex
29th Nov 2005, 09:08 AM
Gunmetalblue,

You have some bumblebee that have a lot of white. I like that.

silane
29th Nov 2005, 02:02 PM
GB,

I was not able to maintain the white of bumblebee offsprings, they have very little white since born like their parents and the white just dissappear (to transparent) when they grow up. Keep us update if the offspring color get better or worse then the parents.

kenny
29th Nov 2005, 03:09 PM
Yeah, i think lowering the temperature does help...
When i first started keeping them, it still wasn't widely known that low temp was a key factor. It was only after i lowered the temp to 28C that i saw the pregnant mummy!

Good luck growing algae , and more babies !

Walter
3rd Dec 2005, 06:56 PM
Beautiful shrimps, and as usual, great photo shooting skills. :D

Jerseyscape
16th Jan 2006, 01:29 AM
Any updates on this? I currently have three pregnant bumblebees and would love to hear from you with updates. What is your exact PH if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks

GunmetalBlue
16th Jan 2006, 09:13 AM
Thanks Walter! :D

Spinex and Fruitpie, yes, I've heard that the young lose some of their color when they grow up. The parents of this first batch of shrimplets don't have much white, so I don't expect the young to keep the white. But here's a pic at 6 weeks old:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/28DSCN61926wks600WC.jpg

However, I have one adult male whose coloring I prefer best (actually more yellow than it is white), and even as an adult he has kept his color. This guy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/25Bumblebee367600WBC.jpg

So he is the only male in with the females now. I'm doing this on a noobie hobby level, more intrigued by the process of how the shrimplets and future mating combos might turn out. Actually, how I got started on all this is that some of my very first BB's I got were yellow and black:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/02BB007600WC.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ZeroCatgravity/Shrimp%20-%20Bumblebee/04BB005600WC.jpg

Unfortunately, being new to this species and with so little info, those first BB's died. So this time around, armed with a little more info, though still not a lot (it just isn't available), I kept the temp lower and lowered my pH to the earlier mentioned 7.7. But I'm finding out it is not low enough. Well I finally managed to get it to 7.2, but still need to work on getting it below neutral.

So Jerseyscape, getting to the update, this is what I have been finding out, that the Bumblebees need soft water and acidic pH for the shrimplets to do well. I am finding this out the hard way, and it has been heartbreaking for me. I only have 1X shrimplet that I can see, left. I've also found out why I am having such a low birthrate - that unless they are in softer/lower pH water, a lot of the eggs get dropped, and also, some of the shrimplets die just after (or even before) birth, so even if I saw more eggs during pregnancy, the actual amount of surviving shrimplets I end up with may be much less.

I have two pregnant females right now, with very low egg counts. I can't work on the water just now until the ones due are born. But I will be continuing to lower the pH when it is safe to do so. If I have better luck after that, I will definitely report on it.

I have been concerned with the amount of Bumblebees being imported to the USA that end up dying due to lack of info (myself included). I'm hoping with more people getting them and being interested in their welfare, that we learn how to get them to both happily survive and also reproduce. My adults are surviving, but the offspring has been a real challenge for me. I think it's a little like how one can get Neons (fish) to survive, but to get them to spawn successfully, they need acidic water.

Jerseyscape, hope you will keep us updated on how yours do! If you have soft water with low pH and can keep them in cooler waters, hopefully, you won't have much problems. Please share with us your conditions too, if you didn't mind. :)

Currently mine are:

pH: 7.2 - but am working to get it lower
GH: 75ppm
KH: 60 - 70ppm
Temp: 76F. average (24.5C average)

-GB

spinex
16th Jan 2006, 09:27 AM
Thanks for sharing your knowledge on BB and their breeding. It will be helpful to those who tried to breed them

Jerseyscape
16th Jan 2006, 09:37 AM
My PH is at 7.0 but I want it to get a little lower. My temps stay at about 74 degrees so that is on the lower end. I currently have three pregnant females and two are really full while the third is only carrying a few eggs. I am thinking of buying ALMOND LEAVES from aquabid and figuring out how to use those to my advantage.

Jerseyscape
16th Jan 2006, 09:51 AM
I forgot to mention.....first I am going to put a piece of driftwood in the water and hope that the water will get softer.


Nice pics by the way.

Symbiot
16th Jan 2006, 11:21 PM
Jersey,... driftwood might help... for a while... until all the tannins have leeched out... Best way is to lower it with spaghum or simply use RO water....

Jerseyscape
16th Jan 2006, 11:47 PM
Jersey,... driftwood might help... for a while... until all the tannins have leeched out... Best way is to lower it with spaghum or simply use RO water....

How do you guys collect so much RO? :D

How would you know how much sphagnum to add?

Thanks

Symbiot
16th Jan 2006, 11:51 PM
Well, i dont use THAT much RO water....
I bought a used RO unit from AquaMedic, and i use that. I once swore that i wouldn't use it, because of all the wastewater... i guess i lied....

alternatively, you could collect rainwater, if you live in a nonpolluted area...

milalic
17th Jan 2006, 09:01 AM
Thanks Walter! :D

Spinex and Fruitpie, yes, I've heard that the young lose some of their color when they grow up. The parents of this first batch of shrimplets don't have much white, so I don't expect the young to keep the white. But here's a pic at 6 weeks old:

However, I have one adult male whose coloring I prefer best (actually more yellow than it is white), and even as an adult he has kept his color. This guy:

So he is the only male in with the females now. I'm doing this on a noobie hobby level, more intrigued by the process of how the shrimplets and future mating combos might turn out. Actually, how I got started on all this is that some of my very first BB's I got were yellow and black:

Unfortunately, being new to this species and with so little info, those first BB's died. So this time around, armed with a little more info, though still not a lot (it just isn't available), I kept the temp lower and lowered my pH to the earlier mentioned 7.7. But I'm finding out it is not low enough. Well I finally managed to get it to 7.2, but still need to work on getting it below neutral.

So Jerseyscape, getting to the update, this is what I have been finding out, that the Bumblebees need soft water and acidic pH for the shrimplets to do well. I am finding this out the hard way, and it has been heartbreaking for me. I only have 1X shrimplet that I can see, left. I've also found out why I am having such a low birthrate - that unless they are in softer/lower pH water, a lot of the eggs get dropped, and also, some of the shrimplets die just after (or even before) birth, so even if I saw more eggs during pregnancy, the actual amount of surviving shrimplets I end up with may be much less.

I have two pregnant females right now, with very low egg counts. I can't work on the water just now until the ones due are born. But I will be continuing to lower the pH when it is safe to do so. If I have better luck after that, I will definitely report on it.

I have been concerned with the amount of Bumblebees being imported to the USA that end up dying due to lack of info (myself included). I'm hoping with more people getting them and being interested in their welfare, that we learn how to get them to both happily survive and also reproduce. My adults are surviving, but the offspring has been a real challenge for me. I think it's a little like how one can get Neons (fish) to survive, but to get them to spawn successfully, they need acidic water.

Jerseyscape, hope you will keep us updated on how yours do! If you have soft water with low pH and can keep them in cooler waters, hopefully, you won't have much problems. Please share with us your conditions too, if you didn't mind. :)

Currently mine are:

pH: 7.2 - but am working to get it lower
GH: 75ppm
KH: 60 - 70ppm
Temp: 76F. average (24.5C average)

-GB


Lower that temp to 72F and you will have better success.

Beviking
21st Jan 2006, 02:46 AM
Beautiful pics GB!!! I like the yellow/black combo also. Did you receive the second batch from the same supplier as the first? Anyone selectively breeding (or trying to) the yellow/black combo?
Care to share where you got them from?

-Be

GunmetalBlue
24th Jan 2006, 01:14 PM
Thanks Beviking :) - yes, I got both batches from the same place, at a LFS. There's no choices involved, it's whatever happens to be in their shipment (they're almost always wild-caught imported shrimp). So it would be strictly by chance, getting one that you might personally consider to be a well-marked shrimp.

I don't know what they're doing in other countries, but feel there's not even much selective breeding going on with Crystal Reds in the USA (yet), so that much less so, with Bumblebees.

-GB

Beviking
24th Jan 2006, 08:06 PM
I don't know what they're doing in other countries, but feel there's not even much selective breeding going on with Crystal Reds in the USA (yet), so that much less so, with Bumblebees.

-GB

Hopefully, I (we?) can change that ;)

-Be

shrimp
10th Feb 2006, 07:51 PM
Wow Great Shots. Very fine details. Congrats.

Ibn
11th Feb 2006, 01:44 AM
Hey GB,

Nice looking shrimps! Just out of curiosity and a bit OT, but the CA in your location, is that California or Canada? I'm guessing the former. Just wanted to know since you have a beautiful collection of shrimps and if you were in California, I'd love to stop by to see the collection. :D

GunmetalBlue
12th Feb 2006, 03:21 PM
Hopefully, I (we?) can change that ;)

-Be

Hehe, that would be fun, but I've got to get my shrimplet survival numbers up. Unfortunately it's been a struggle, as I'm currently having some pH problems :( .

Thanks Shrimp, and welcome to the forum - I see you have a very ingenious username there. :surprised :grin2:

Hey Eric, so you want to steal my shrimps ... oops, I mean see my shrimps. I'm in So Cal., over 300 miles from you, so I'll have plenty of time to hide them. Hehe, just kidding! :joking: Thanks for such a nice comment.

-GB

Ibn
15th Feb 2006, 06:33 AM
Hehe, only 300 miles! I'm actually heading down to SoCal at the end of next month to visit some friends of mine. :)

GunmetalBlue
4th May 2006, 01:36 PM
Hi guys, a quick update, my pH problems have been resolved and am successfully both breeding and having surviving shrimplets. It turned out that those drops and test kits for pH were very inaccurate. So I got one of those pH meters (the Hanna pHep 5) and found out my pH was in reality, way up between 8.1 - 8.5! It's no wonder I was having dying shrimplets.

It's all fixed now, I keep my pH in the acidic range (6.8 is working fine, though going down to 6.5 is good) and keep my temp between 23 - 24C and all's well. After having suffered those previous losses, you can imagine I'm really enjoying my shrimplets now. :2thumbsup

Eric, now I know you travel all over the place, both online and offline. :earmuffs:

-GB

Ibn
5th May 2006, 02:13 AM
Yeah, I do a bit of traveling every once in awhile. Next up is a trip to Thailand/Vietnam in July. :D