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Phanizzzle
3rd Dec 2009, 05:16 AM
Hi, is a PH of 7.4 too high for BTs? I have amazonia II so I am not sure why the PH is still kind of high.

Phanizzzle
3rd Dec 2009, 01:35 PM
can anyone help me with this?

imke_j
3rd Dec 2009, 03:05 PM
Hi, is a PH of 7.4 too high for BTs? I have amazonia II so I am not sure why the PH is still kind of high.
Do you mean Black Tiger or Blue Tiger?

Generally, it is important from which origins your tiger come; you should orientate on this. Check out Novina's thread (http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showpost.php?p=39175&postcount=122) for parameter.

My Blue Tiger always didn't were so well in too soft water; I kept them in pH 6,8-7,5.

retardo
3rd Dec 2009, 05:46 PM
There is a correlation between the KH and pH. A quick primer can be found in this article (http://www.shrimpnow.com/viewarticle.php?commentid=86#comment86). Use some of the methods proposed in the article and see how they work for you. Amazonia II (and other soils--e.g. GEX) lowers the pH by adding carbonates to the water, but will only lower it to a certain point where it tops out. What is your starting pH (out of the tap, measured at least one hour later)? If it is high, Amazonia can only do so much.

[steps on soapbox :)] IMO, there is entirely too much focus on pH. While pH is important, the more important factor is the KH. It is generally agreed that a KH of 3-4 dKH is the minimum requirement to maintain stable tank parameters. Carbonates in the water are what buffer/resists changes in the pH. Not so long ago, it was believed that getting the perfect pH was the holy grail and "pH shock" was considered the primary reason for fish deaths. It's been discovered, through extensive observation, that as long as the pH was buffered by the KH, fish deaths were minimized. Those of us that inject CO2 into our tanks for our plants know that the pH will drop the moment the CO2 level starts to rise, but we also know observe that there are no ill effects on our fish and/or shrimp. The pH can fluctuate quite a bit with CO2 injection-- YET there is *no* pH shock; otherwise, our fish/shrimp would be dead. This is attributed to the carbonate levels in the water column.

That said, I would say observe your shrimp. If they don't seem to mind the pH where it is (i.e., eating, pooping, mating, etc.), I wouldn't even bother with trying to adjust the ph/KH. If the machine ain't broke, why fix it?

Phanizzzle
3rd Dec 2009, 08:23 PM
imke_j I meant Blue tigers, sorry I didn't specify.

retardo thanks for the info I will check my KH later when I get home. Although I believe I can't find the card for the KH test kit. I plan on getting the BT's shipped out on monday a dozen of them so I just want to make sure my tank is suitable for them because I noticed that a lot of threads and topics about BT's the ph seems to be on the lower side (6.5-7). I guess its a matter of acclimating them properly. I will check the PH of my tap water also.

Thank you very much for the replies!

imke_j
3rd Dec 2009, 09:38 PM
Phanizzzle: Do you have other shrimps in the tank yet? If so it would be wise to acclimated the Blue Tiger to your water first and to the new bacterial fauna in your tank later. People often have troubles when bringing in new shrimp.

Phanizzzle
3rd Dec 2009, 11:09 PM
imke_j: My tank has been running for about 3 yrs but with amazonia maybe about 1 1/2 yrs. I've had RCS from the beginning and still have them. I've also had CRS for a few months and had success breeding them although they werent breeding as much shrimplets as my cherries, but they died due to lack of maintanence in the past. I also only started with only 5 CRS and had 30 RCS so I think the RCS, overruled the CRS, as you can say.

retardo
4th Dec 2009, 12:06 PM
imke_j: My tank has been running for about 3 yrs but with amazonia maybe about 1 1/2 yrs.

Over time, Amazonia (and all other substrates) loses its effectiveness over time. At 1.5yrs, I suspect this may be partly why the pH goes no lower than what you stated above.

Regarding testing KH, I believe you add as many drops of the reagent into 5mL of water as it takes to get the water to its yellow endpoint.

Phanizzzle
4th Dec 2009, 12:29 PM
retardo: i just tested my tank for GH and KH, although the bottles didn't say how many drops to put. I dosed 5 drops and they are about the same color. light yellow..not sure if i put the correct amount, i just added drop by drop because the water was still clear.

water parameter:

Ammonia: 0ppm
nitrate: 0ppm
PH: 7.4
GH: uknown
KH: unknown

-my tap water ph is the same as my tank.

picnhboyz
4th Dec 2009, 03:25 PM
how long the aquasoil being used?
normally i found fews facing this problem...
few things to check;
1) tap water
2) filter material
3) any hardscape/hardware inside or directly link to the tank water

ADA amazonia II is designed for more lower pH, around 6.
so please check those mentioned above..

Phanizzzle
4th Dec 2009, 07:56 PM
how long the aquasoil being used?
normally i found fews facing this problem...
few things to check;
1) tap water
2) filter material
3) any hardscape/hardware inside or directly link to the tank water

ADA amazonia II is designed for more lower pH, around 6.
so please check those mentioned above..

picnhboyz: as stated above I've used the aquasoil for about 1 1/2 yrs. Tap water is the same as my tank. What about the filter material and hardscape/hardware? I have everything I've used in my tank with the amazonia II from the beginning. When I first started using Amazonia II, the PH was about 6.8, but I haven't really checked my PH till recently which is when I found out my PH went back to the same as when I didn't have amazonia II.

retardo
4th Dec 2009, 11:11 PM
If your tap is the same as your tank, my guess is that your Amazonia has lost its buffering capacity and if you want it lower your pH, you may need to replace the entire substrate.

BTW, it sounds like your GH and KH may be around 5 degrees. What brand of test kit was it?

Phanizzzle
4th Dec 2009, 11:18 PM
My test kit is Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit(API).
I dont necessarily have a problem about the PH just worried I wouldn't be able to keep these shrimp because they are my favorite and I finally have an opportunity to buy them so thats my main concern. If my water parameters are fine to keep the BT's happy then I'll be happy, I just didnt want to spend so much money and they ended up dying.
Thank you.

Phanizzzle
6th Dec 2009, 11:33 AM
can anyone help? I plan on ordering them tomorrow so they ship Monday.
Thanks in advanced.

go9ma123
6th Dec 2009, 12:15 PM
I just didnt want to spend so much money and they ended up dying.


From what I learned is going too cheap on shrimp tank can hurt you later on...
If you do not want to spend too much on aqua soils here are my tips.
I have done to all my tank like this and they work well.
1. Put small amount of aqua soils into the tank and change soils every year or so. Also, have simple tank setup.
2. Clean out the bottom of the used soils since you have used them year and half... (that where all the black/brown dirty stuff are...) and put some new soils on top.

Any ways, I know some people having Blue Tiger shrimp on pH 7.2-7.5 and breeding them well. From what I heard, cleaning and having good filters help more. If I were you, use my method (if you want to go cheap...) and get some good filters on your tank. (All my tank have sponge filters and hang on filters and one tank has canister.)

Good Luck.

Phanizzzle
6th Dec 2009, 12:29 PM
I have aqua soil and had it for about 1 1/2 yrs already, but I dont plan on switching substrate every year and a half. I also have a sponge filter with a hang on. I can keep my water parameters consistent, I'm just trying to make sure my current water parameters are good enough to house and breed BT's.
Thank you.

go9ma123
6th Dec 2009, 12:42 PM
Well... I would do something about the soils, but it's up to you. (1.5 years seems used while for soils.)
Any ways, if you are still worried about your water even you have tested, put 2-3 cherry shrimps for 5-7 days and see if they are moving and eating well. (Cherry shrimp is the cheapest... I think)
If they are, I think you should be good to go.
Good Luck again~

Phanizzzle
6th Dec 2009, 12:46 PM
I do have RCS in the tank, been breeding them for about 2yrs. I just wasn't sure if I could get BT's since they are more sensitive than RCS. If I were to change substrate to get new Aqua soil I would have to let it cycle my tank again.

retardo
6th Dec 2009, 03:42 PM
Using cherries to guage how well BT's will acclimate does not work well. RCS are very hardy shrimp and will adjust to any variety of environments. BT's may not respond the same way. There is no true way to tell really. The best you can do is to use the drip method to match the water that the BT's come in with to your tank water over several hours. The drip method will slowly alter the original water to match the pH, KH, GH, and other wate parameters of your tank.

API test kits require the addition of reagent to a 5mL sample of water. The procedure is to add one drop of reagent to the sample in the tube, cap and agitate the sample water, and watch to see when the water turns yellow. In the case of KH, the sample will first exhibit bluish colors before turning yellow. The number of drops used is equal to the degrees of carbonate hardness (5 drops = 5dKH). The method is similar for GH. If there is no changes in color after many, many drops, GH is close to zero.

Phanizzzle
7th Dec 2009, 10:12 AM
so I placed an order for the BTs and they will be shipped out tomorrow. They breeder's tank ph is at 7.2. So hopefully acclimating them to my tank will not be stressful for the shrimp. Thanks for the replies.

retardo: so how does my water parameters look for the BT's? Both GH and KH are light yellow (with 5 drops)

retardo
7th Dec 2009, 10:44 AM
retardo: so how does my water parameters look for the BT's? Both GH and KH are light yellow (with 5 drops)

Numbers look good. :)

Phanizzzle
7th Dec 2009, 10:51 AM
Numbers look good. :)

Great :D. I will update when I get the shrimp. Thanks for the help!

Phanizzzle
11th Dec 2009, 08:27 AM
I received my BT's today and just released them into my tank not too long ago. They went straight down to the substrate and was walking although, I can't say that for all because my lights are currently off. I'm thinking they're fine since they didn't really swim frantically after being released.

Phanizzzle
11th Dec 2009, 09:00 AM
http://i50.tinypic.com/2hrgvae.jpg

(sorry for the picture quality, I took it with my phone.)

dxiong5
11th Dec 2009, 12:04 PM
Looks nice! They colored up even after shipping/acclimating, that's a good sign.

jaxon777
14th Jan 2010, 06:20 AM
Awesome shrimp! I cant wait until my tanks get cycled I am defiently getting some of these.

Phanizzzle
14th Jan 2010, 11:11 AM
Awesome shrimp! I cant wait until my tanks get cycled I am defiently getting some of these.

Thank you! They are awesome and she is actually berried right now so I am excited :D. Good luck with your tank!