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View Full Version : Taiwan Bee - Water change & Survival rate questions ?



Kloudie
20th Sep 2013, 11:37 PM
Hello guys , I'm new here and this is the first time I post a topic . I've been breeding CRS/CBS for nearly 2 years , but only start breeding TWB for 3 months . My tank 90x45x45 , about 3 months old, using ADA substrate with sponge filter , canister filter with eheim , matrix and no UGF. All the big twb guys ( ~30 ) is fine and growing fast but the problem is the baby survival rate is low . Is it because of my water change ? my tank is ~200L , and i do water change about 10-15% , using RO water . I heard that without UGF , you shouldn't change the water too much , is that true ? I've started planning for my 2nd twb tank , and to use UGF or not is still a big question :D

hyoushoku
21st Sep 2013, 03:02 AM
Hello guys , I'm new here and this is the first time I post a topic . I've been breeding CRS/CBS for nearly 2 years , but only start breeding TWB for 3 months . My tank 90x45x45 , about 3 months old, using ADA substrate with sponge filter , canister filter with eheim , matrix and no UGF. All the big twb guys ( ~30 ) is fine and growing fast but the problem is the baby survival rate is low . Is it because of my water change ? my tank is ~200L , and i do water change about 10-15% , using RO water . I heard that without UGF , you shouldn't change the water too much , is that true ? I've started planning for my 2nd twb tank , and to use UGF or not is still a big question :D

Hi Kloudie,

Don't go for UGF. It introduce more organics into water column than without.

What's your water parameters and your usual water care and feeding regime?

You have 200L tank, is it the babies are hiding and you can't find them? In my 120L planted shrimp tank, I always don't see babies easily and one day some new adult shrimp just pop out. :embarasse

Kloudie
21st Sep 2013, 04:28 PM
Hi Kloudie,

Don't go for UGF. It introduce more organics into water column than without.

What's your water parameters and your usual water care and feeding regime?

You have 200L tank, is it the babies are hiding and you can't find them? In my 120L planted shrimp tank, I always don't see babies easily and one day some new adult shrimp just pop out. :embarasse

Thank you for your answer , hyoushoku.

My water parameters :

PH 6
Gh 4-5
TDS 110

I feed them 1-2 times a day , using Mosura ( Shrimpton , Excel) , shirakura products with very small amount , so it wont effect the water quality .

I'm planning for 2nd twb tank , just for the babies , here's what i already have :

60cm tank
ADA Amazon (15l)
bee max , mosura old sea mud power , bt-9
eheim 2213 x2 with substrat pro , matrix and power house
sponge filter x2


what do you think ? If i have to add some more , please let me know :)

hyoushoku
21st Sep 2013, 06:14 PM
How often do you perform water change and how you replenish the water?

Kloudie
21st Sep 2013, 09:42 PM
once per week , i use a 5l bottle to pour down RO water slowly into the tank . It takes about 40min to finish , and i use 4 bottles ( 20L in total ) .
77877788

hyoushoku
21st Sep 2013, 09:49 PM
once per week , i use a 5l bottle to pour down RO water slowly into the tank . It takes about 40min to finish , and i use 4 bottles ( 20L in total ) .
77877788

What mineral mix you used to replenish the RO water? Or you just add RO water neat?

ShrimpmasterNL
21st Sep 2013, 10:01 PM
As far as I know and experience, with pure taiwan bee it's always a low survival rate of shrimplets. That's why a lot op people use F1's hybrids to breed them.
I'm using RO water too and mineralize it to about 150tds. Below 100 i get trouble, above 200 too. You can do some experiments with that value maybe...

Kloudie
21st Sep 2013, 10:28 PM
What mineral mix you used to replenish the RO water? Or you just add RO water neat?

I use mosura mineral plus and mineralize it to ~120 , and if GH reach 4-5 , I use TDS up .



As far as I know and experience, with pure taiwan bee it's always a low survival rate of shrimplets. That's why a lot op people use F1's hybrids to breed them.
I'm using RO water too and mineralize it to about 150tds. Below 100 i get trouble, above 200 too. You can do some experiments with that value maybe...

you're right , most of my surviving twb babies is from the F1 mother , and they're growing fast . Still don't know why :rolleyes:

hyoushoku
21st Sep 2013, 11:08 PM
As far as I know and experience, with pure taiwan bee it's always a low survival rate of shrimplets. That's why a lot op people use F1's hybrids to breed them.
I'm using RO water too and mineralize it to about 150tds. Below 100 i get trouble, above 200 too. You can do some experiments with that value maybe...

Hi Shrimpmaster,

FYI. In APAC, most Taiwan Bee are breed in mixed breed tank and much less in-breeding. Thus, they are quite strong and not too sensitive.


I use mosura mineral plus and mineralize it to ~120 , and if GH reach 4-5 , I use TDS up .


Hi Kloudie,

What I'm going to tell you may sounds unorthodox to the main stream. Thus, it will be at your discretion.

1. Lack of Trace Minerals: Although your sea mud provide some trace mineral, it release very slowly. When you change water, the trace minerals is gone. Furthermore trace minerals precipitate easily and the amount goes into water column is very little. My personal method is to use liquid trace than relying on mud or rock to provide trace elements, which are too little and may not be useful. I change 50 to 80% of water on all my tanks every week and no issue. However I just discovered today that commercial liquid mineral does not work well with liquid trace due to both contain chelating agent and may get saturated over time.
2. Over-feeding: Feeding 2 times a day is way too much, especially you are using Mosura's food that will melt. You may think it is not much but actually, it is a lot in terms of after they dissolve into the water. Try feeding once per day with one day feed food that contains meat and the other day don't.

Kloudie
24th Sep 2013, 10:28 PM
dear hyoushoku ,

thx for your answer , though i didn't get it much ( the liquid trace part , i dont know where to buy it / how to self-created it ) . Now I only feed them once per day , and add vegetable like mulberry leaves and almond leaves , and the shrimps seem to like it.

Im setting up my 2nd twb tank , and I have a question : Can I use ADA Power Sand under the ADA substrate instead of UGFs ? I just need the pumice stones in it to keep the bacteria in the substrate , but I wonder whether it damage the shrimp or not because of the nutrition in it . Im about to use the 6l one :P Do you think i should use it or not ?

hyoushoku
24th Sep 2013, 10:48 PM
Most aquarium shop should sell trace fertilizer for planted tank, thus easily obtained.

You definitely can use power sand underneath, I am using it for my planted shrimp tank but not using 6L of it, it should be small quantity.

However if you just want something porous, it is not cost effective. Alternatively, you can go to horticulture/hydroponic shop to buy Vermiculite. It is porous, high absorption and high ion exchange rate. The only challenge with vermiculite is that it is very porous and air is trapped inside and you need to soak it till sink before you put in the tank.

There is another pumice stone you can get, which is the Seachem Matrix filter media but it is expensive and not worth getting.

Thirdly, you can use exhausted Granular Activated Carbon. You can ask around your friends who is using AC and ask them to give you when they change once a month or two months.

My personal choice is Vermiculite or Granular Activated Carbon.

By the way, you mentioned you had been breeding CRS and CBS for 2 years. What grade are you keeping? The reason I am asking this is that SSS CRS or PRL is as challenging as Taiwan Bee but Taiwan Bee needs more trace minerals; I think is due to it's blue color.

bostoneric
4th Oct 2013, 02:37 PM
However if you just want something porous, it is not cost effective. Alternatively, you can go to horticulture/hydroponic shop to buy Vermiculite. It is porous, high absorption and high ion exchange rate. The only challenge with vermiculite is that it is very porous and air is trapped inside and you need to soak it till sink before you put in the tank.

My personal choice is Vermiculite or Granular Activated Carbon.


Can you give some more info on Vermiculite? I'm curious how you use it in your filters? Seems like a messy media just going by what I see it looks like in pictures. I'd love to learn more about how you recommend using it.

Thanks

usher
4th Oct 2013, 03:42 PM
As far as I know and experience, with pure taiwan bee it's always a low survival rate of shrimplets. That's why a lot op people use F1's hybrids to breed them.
I'm using RO water too and mineralize it to about 150tds. Below 100 i get trouble, above 200 too. You can do some experiments with that value maybe...

I agreed with ShrimpmasterNL from what I experienced with TWB, I get trouble with TDS less 100 and over 200 too. (I think it also depends on the sources you get TWB from)
Though it's always have low survival rate of shrimplets but I still don't want to use F1 hybrids.
You always have to pay to get something. The choice is yours.

hyoushoku
4th Oct 2013, 07:08 PM
Can you give some more info on Vermiculite? I'm curious how you use it in your filters? Seems like a messy media just going by what I see it looks like in pictures. I'd love to learn more about how you recommend using it.

Thanks

He wants it in the substrate, not filter. ;)