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Asphalt art
17th Mar 2013, 11:36 PM
Well, I am finally getting everything I need together. Currently I am in possession of (6) 10 gallon tanks and one 20 gallon long tank for my shrimp breeding project. Sponge filters and air pumps are coming from one vendor here in the states and U.P. Aqua Shrimp Sand along with an API Master test kit is coming from Amazon.com. Good news is that I have permission from the Wife to dedicate an entire room to the aquariums in a 12x12 room by the carport. Unfortunately it seems a little worse for wear due to some water rot and being about 30 years old. Simple and cheap to fix since I am tearing down another 18x18 building that has good materials, but time consuming. Even better news is since I am gutting the existing room to renovate I get to place electrical outlets and water outlets anywhere I need them. I'll post some pics later in the day, as I need to finish cleaning it out of all the storage items from our recent move last year.

Does anyone have any room features you feel would make life easier? I do intend to over insulate the room to deal with my incredibly hot summers, so I was just looking for other ideas before I finish it, and slap myself in the head for not doing something simple while it is apart.

Asphalt art
18th Mar 2013, 01:49 AM
Taking a midday break for some burgers at the moment. Took out all the storage shelving, door trim and a few wall panels in my shrimp room. Unfortunately the previous owners drywalled the ceiling lower than the panelling and I am stuck taking the ceiling down before I progress any further (fasteners are covered). In getting a better look at some of the interior framing and the subflooring, I am happy to see very little water damage actually. Seems to be mostly improper outdoor rated paneling rotting away from the elements.

Getting anxious to order my little clan, but everything has to be setup properly before I will order them.

Asphalt art
19th Mar 2013, 12:43 AM
Here are some of the pics as I had promised. I dug into it quite a bit more to find some damage that will have to be addressed before I decide which route to take.

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randyl
19th Mar 2013, 12:48 AM
Something to consider,

- Weight load. Is the floor strong enough for the load? If there's nothing below this room and it's on concrete then you're fine, otherwise, make sure the floor can take the weight. 6 x 10G + 1 x 20G is only 80G, which isn't too much but if you have 12'x12' room, you WILL get more tanks. Also, 80G, although not a lot, if all weight is supported by the same small area of subfloor, it can be an issue. A well design rack to distribute the weight properly helps a lot too.

- Insulation and temp control. Not sure your climate. If it gets very hot and/or very cold, it will be worth it to add extra insulation now if you're using A/C and heater for this room. A bit of work will save you $$$ in the long run.

- Moisture. If you well insulate the room, this can be an issue. Add a venting fan or consider a dehumidifier. You don't want the black stuff growing on your wall, your wife won't be happy (a happy wife is the #1 requirement for a shrimp room). Also, it's a serious health threat.

- Electricity and Water supply. You seem to have this covered. If possible, use dedicated 15A for this room, if you can get 2 or 3 then even better. Also, if possible, get a RO installed if you're going that route. If you can install a sink in the room your life will be much easier.

- Minor: air pump location. If you are using a more powerful air pump (logical if you have multiple tanks and room for more), you can have it in the garage and plumb into the room (note: if garage always has temp very different from this room then don't do it). If you use a powerful air pump, pre arrange the PVC pipe used to distribute the air to all tanks and lay out the pipe before tanks are in place.

Good luck.

Asphalt art
19th Mar 2013, 12:54 AM
Here are a few of the damaged sections. for the most part it seems to be water damage, and quite possibly ants at some point in time. Still on the fence at this moment if I want to continue with this plan or use one of the other 2 buildings I have here. One is a 18x18 unfinished shed that is very sturdy (no interior coverings, so everything is visible) and the 20x32 pool house that has a few rot issues of its own. On to the hidden finds...


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For the most part these are easy fixes. Resheath the outside, new insulation for the inside. Beyond that it is just moving around the outlets and bringing the water supply line around the side of the house. I have considered adding another 10 feet of length to it, but if I do that I prefer to tear it all the way down to the foundation and redo it. Considerably more time and effort, but may be worth it considering how many tanks I will need for this project. Absolute worst case scenario I tear this all the way down along with the 18x18, reclaim all the materials that are worth it and build a different building altogether.

Asphalt art
19th Mar 2013, 02:11 AM
Something to consider,

- Weight load. Is the floor strong enough for the load? If there's nothing below this room and it's on concrete then you're fine, otherwise, make sure the floor can take the weight. 6 x 10G + 1 x 20G is only 80G, which isn't too much but if you have 12'x12' room, you WILL get more tanks. Also, 80G, although not a lot, if all weight is supported by the same small area of subfloor, it can be an issue. A well design rack to distribute the weight properly helps a lot too.

The current application of joists under the floor is unknown at this point since I cant see them just yet. In the case they are full of rot (possible in 2 corners), or are something too small to be adequate they will be replaced with 2x8 pressure treated on a low block foundation to satisfy "portable shed" requirements for code (although I live out in the country and only see those people once every few years). I am still planning the wall tied rack system that will shadow the underlying floor joists below with extra block support on the ground (not just a few area on the perimeter. Flooring will be 3/4 T&G over 16" spacing if I have to go as far as replacing it for any reason.


- Insulation and temp control. Not sure your climate. If it gets very hot and/or very cold, it will be worth it to add extra insulation now if you're using A/C and heater for this room. A bit of work will save you $$$ in the long run.

Yep, heat is a killer in the Deep South let alone being 30 miles from the coast give or take. It was ok with the R13 in the walls and R19 in the roof, but it was showing age and generally in my way to inspect the rest. Same grade is going back in. Since it is too cheap to ignore I will probably add a radiant barrier to the low roof at a minimum.


- Moisture. If you well insulate the room, this can be an issue. Add a venting fan or consider a dehumidifier. You don't want the black stuff growing on your wall, your wife won't be happy (a happy wife is the #1 requirement for a shrimp room). Also, it's a serious health threat.

Good point, as Black Mold is pretty bad in the South and WILL cause serious respiratory issues. The room was already set up for a vent fan and it has an older one, although it still works fine I may get a more quiet and efficient model. I've been looking at dehumidifiers, and/or getting a smaller AC unit so that it circulates more air. If I used too large of an AC unit it would never run much, and the air would get nice and stale. I have an extra 10k BTU unit that I never use but it is just a touch too big possibly. Long term goal: if this location is good is to enclose the carport that divides the house form this room and plumb proper central air in. That would also give me about another 275 sqft to play with long term.


- Electricity and Water supply. You seem to have this covered. If possible, use dedicated 15A for this room, if you can get 2 or 3 then even better. Also, if possible, get a RO installed if you're going that route. If you can install a sink in the room your life will be much easier.

Already taken care of. Dual dedicated 20a 120v service currently, with several other 20a circuits that aren't being used anymore if needed. I have yet to look at RO systems in depth, but I am going to wait till I get my test kits in to see what kind of water I have naturally (private wells). I used a generic test and was sitting at about 6.8-7.0ph, nitrates/nitrites/copper 0 backed up with subsequent tests. Our ground is very acidic down here, which is why Azaleas and Blueberries thrive. My hardness was pretty low, but I intend to use my en route test kit for baseline, then take a sample for external testing afterwards (accuracy check). Either way a small residential system is fairly cheap for my needs at quick glance.


- Minor: air pump location. If you are using a more powerful air pump (logical if you have multiple tanks and room for more), you can have it in the garage and plumb into the room (note: if garage always has temp very different from this room then don't do it). If you use a powerful air pump, pre arrange the PVC pipe used to distribute the air to all tanks and lay out the pipe before tanks are in place.

This I actually did not think of at all. In retrospect I now see what kind of a hot mess of airline tubing I would have ended up with. This did bring some fun ideas about my head though. Need to sit down tonight or tomorrow and come up with something that is feasible. I ordered a couple pumps to handle 4 tanks so far, basically so that if one pump fails it won't suffer me every tank in case I am not around. Considering I worked as an aviation electrician, it shouldn't be too hard to run 2 very large pumps. One would function as the main, the other running as backup off of a zero pressure switch in case the main fails. I need to look into this as well. I am sure I would also need to get a lot of dial restrictors, as the pressure drop along the line must be pretty severe if it has multiple drops before reaching the last.


Good luck.

It always helps.

QC Discus
19th Mar 2013, 07:01 AM
(note: if garage always has temp very different from this room then don't do it)
I have an Aquarium Products RB-2S Blower , 43CFM @ 36PSI . It is located in my garage ( way Loud ) and the garage gets to -20F in the winter
while the fish room stays around 78F.
Never an issue . Open loop system (25Ft per side ) venting 60% , any condensation go's into the tank or is vented out.

Get a blower if you can , there reliable as heck and push a lot of air for a lot of tanks . No diaphragms to go out. If you got power there running ...
I have ran 60 stones @ 18 inch depth. and still blow 50% air off to the out side .

Asphalt art
19th Mar 2013, 11:05 AM
I have an Aquarium Products RB-2S Blower , 43CFM @ 36PSI . It is located in my garage ( way Loud ) and the garage gets to -20F in the winter
while the fish room stays around 78F.
Never an issue . Open loop system (25Ft per side ) venting 60% , any condensation go's into the tank or is vented out.

Get a blower if you can , there reliable as heck and push a lot of air for a lot of tanks . No diaphragms to go out. If you got power there running ...
I have ran 60 stones @ 18 inch depth. and still blow 50% air off to the out side .

Interesting, didn't even think of those. I guess that knowledge comes from a much broader knowledge of keeping aquariums that I am used to. I tried looking for that model to no avail, but I see the direction I need. I can only imagine what I would need to push 60 stones for at this point, but I will keep those in mind. It is too easy to plumb the PVC now just in case I get to that level. Exactly what I was looking for. Better to set it up and not need it, than to not do it and do twice the work later to accommodate it.

QC Discus
19th Mar 2013, 11:55 AM
Yes more is always better .
I like most started off using 10-15 small cheep air pumps.
But soon got tired of the diaphragms going out and the tanks not having air while I was at work .
So I upgraded to this ...
7192
http://www.amazon.com/Danner-Supreme-AP-100-Air-Pump/dp/B0018CJVYK
I had this plumed into 3 inch PVC around the perimeter of my fish room with drop downs for each tank.
Ran about 25 tanks - 20G tall and 20G longs - 2 30G - 3 55G and a 90G
It worked well but had problems pushing the air down to the bottom of the 90 and the 30G's
Had to move the filter up off the floors in-order to get air to flow.

Ran this for a few years but it to had the diaphragm go out and ALL my tanks shut down !!!
Had to pull out all the little pumps ( never get rid of your equipment ) and used them until the replacement repair kit cam in ( Buy more then one you will need it )
Used it until I came across the blower from a fish store that was shutting down.
Looks very much like this
7193
Bought it and have never regretted it .
It was manufactured in 1984 and has been running almost non stop ever since .
I got it in 2009 . It did stop one time on me. We had a power outage and it did not restart.
I took it apart and there was a small piece of sand (1) holding the blower blades from spinning up. ( blower has no power until it is running full speed)
I removed the sand and it fired up and has been going ever since.

Fish room is plumed with 3 inch PVC all around the out side wall and has a 1 inch PVC pipe , furthest point from the blower , that I ran all the way down under the floor . I then added a valve on that 1 inch PVC and use that to blow off extra pressure . I just let it blow under the floor .
If I close off the valve the air pressure is so much it will splash water out of a 30 gal tank and all the fish go NUTS with the water force and sound.
All the tanks have a drop down of airline tubing with a valve drilled into the 3 inch PVC .
That way if I empty a tank and no longer need it I can shut the air off to that tank . Or if a stone gets a bit old I can turn up the air to that tank only ,
until I decide to change out the stone.

If you can swing it get a blower you wont be disappointed. If your only going to run a few tanks 5-10 get a Supreme AP-100 Air-Pump until you need more .
Just keep your eyes open for a deal on a blower and don't pass it up , it is a great investment if you think you will ever have a bunch of tanks.

Asphalt art
15th Apr 2013, 08:57 PM
Well, I apologize for not giving an update but my little project turned into a big deal the second I decided to pull off the roof and outer sheathing. Seems to be that the expending foam in the above pictures was a failed attempt to stop a water leak (known) but unfortunately the damp wood invited subterranean termites to set hold. They made it into my soffit on the main house, and into a few roof stringers. I had to get that all cut out immediately if you can understand as a homeowner. The good news is that they didn't seem to get very far and have only been operating for a few years with the average ability to eat a 2x4x8 a year. We have been getting a lot of rain lately, but I only have to enclose another 5 feet of soffit and I am done with that fiasco.

It did suck though. Wifey kind of felt bad that I went through all that trouble and allowed me to put one rack in the house due to my dilligence to eradicating the little buggers. Unfortunately for her she didn't realize I would buy a rack system that holds 1000lbs a shelf :D . My 55g Cherry tank is almost through cycling, but I am double checking that again because last night I moved that thing onto the bottom shelf of the rack myself. It is not ever moving again I can assure you. So I tossed in another 7cc of ammonia this morning and will monitor my levels over the next few days. I have also would like to believe I have found a good tank addition for surface area increases, and when the tanks are rolling well in a few months I will be able to pull these items out for a bacteria jump start in new tanks. Oddly enough they look like trees. Colorful inert trees anyways. I will post a pic up later in the appropriate forum of those for opinions. They are the plastic bath sponges from wally world, and I had to find an interesting way to keep them from floating that was also inert.